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ZachDrumCorps

American Tradition in Allentown (June 30 2016)

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Well, I think we should be realistic and say that the errs are in both directions. However, audience members are simply unaware of things that are too soft because: they are too soft--they can't hear it! So, the data of "viewer complaints" would never skew to the "that sample/synth/microphone balance was too soft" unless that person had the understanding of the show that a designer would. Things being to loud is much easier to call out/complain about than things being too soft so that observation is a bit biased. And so is the claim that the designers simply "didn't learn their lesson".

I disagree. I think the complaint about the pit being too loud is often made in tandem with a complaint that people can't hear the brass or battery. And it's a frequent complaint.

But people seldom complain about the brass and/or battery being too loud and drowning out the pit.

So it's not just that people don't complain about what they can't hear, because in fact they do.

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was at the show -- maybe an actual review later but for now some quick comments

surf -- hornline finally improving

boston -- liked this show a lot more than expected. it lost me for a while in the middle but got me back in the closer, love YPG! love the props!

xmen -- watch out next year. i suspect this show is gonna end up being clean too early. if they add more meat to the stew watch out!

phantom -- again negative impressions wrong. like it far more than i expected. but the entire thing is just to ... pretty? even their more aggressive stuff is pretty.

bloo -- is for real. they are still really dirty everywhere visually. guard seemed a little afterthoughtish? but it grabs and doesn't let go.

cadets -- performers just dont seem comfortable with this show. which reads as awkwardness. i dunno. maybe it evolves. but if i had to guess now id say out of the medals this year.

forgot to include last thing. sat next to guy who hasnt seem drum corps in twenty years. he loved it -- trombones, electronics, dance. it was really really cool to listen to him react.

Edited by corpsband
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I disagree. I think the complaint about the pit being too loud is often made in tandem with a complaint that people can't hear the brass or battery. And it's a frequent complaint.

But people seldom complain about the brass and/or battery being too loud and drowning out the pit.

So it's not just that people don't complain about what they can't hear, because in fact they do.

we were specifically talking about the Pit and there volumes. Not the volumes of the battery/hornline. So nice Spin there DJ...

The Pit is rarely if ever complained about being too soft. And I'm saying that there are in fact parts of shows where the pit can be both too loud and too soft. But people only care when its too loud because its easy to call out and they are not familiar enough with a show to know when something is too soft.

Edited by charlie1223

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We were specifically talking about the pits and their volumes. Not the volumes of the battery/hornline. So nice spin there, DJ...

The pit is rarely if ever complained about being too soft. And I'm saying that there are in fact parts of shows where the pit can be both too loud and too soft. But people only care when its too loud because its easy to call out and they are not familiar enough with a show to know when something is too soft.

No spin at all. I will now bore everyone with a recap (and not the kind of recap they'd really like):

1. George mentioned that the pit was too loud in Cadets' closer tonight.

2. I grumbled about over-loud pits being a concern that is voiced about multiple corps every season, especially early in the summer.

3. You observed that Cadets had just changed their ending, and that balancing a pit is complicated.

4. I pointed out that pit-balancing problems almost always seem to be that the pit is too loud, not too soft, and I pointed to audience responses in defense of that claim: people complain about pits being too loud, not too soft.

5. You said that "Audience members are simply unaware of things that are too soft . . . because they are too soft". So it was you, not I, who expanded the discussion to include more than front ensembles. And you did it again in the post I'm quoting here (which would be #7 in this discussion), when you say that people "are not familiar enough with a show to know when something is too soft".

6. And I pointed out the obvious: audiences, regardless of how familiar they are with a show, complain about some elements of drum corps being too soft all the time.

Just not pits.

Look, I don't disagree that the pit cannot be too soft. I'm just saying that audiences don't usually feel that pits are too soft, but they do feel that way about brass (a lot) and the battery (now and then).

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No spin at all. I will now bore everyone with a recap (and not the kind of recap they'd really like):

1. George mentioned that the pit was too loud in Cadets' closer tonight.

2. I grumbled about over-loud pits being a concern that is voiced about multiple corps every season, especially early in the summer.

3. You observed that Cadets had just changed their ending, and that balancing a pit is complicated.

4. I pointed out that pit-balancing problems almost always seem to be that the pit is too loud, not too soft, and I pointed to audience responses in defense of that claim: people complain about pits being too loud, not too soft.

5. You said that "Audience members are simply unaware of things that are too soft . . . because they are too soft". So it was you, not I, who expanded the discussion to include more than front ensembles. And you did it again in the post I'm quoting here (which would be #7 in this discussion), when you say that people "are not familiar enough with a show to know when something is too soft".

6. And I pointed out the obvious: audiences, regardless of how familiar they are with a show, complain about some elements of drum corps being too soft all the time.

Just not pits.

Look, I don't disagree that the pit cannot be too soft. I'm just saying that audiences don't usually feel that pits are too soft, but they do feel that way about brass (a lot) and the battery (now and then).

Cadets are regular offenders of over-amping the pit.

And Tastycake French Apple pies are baked by Satan. BACK demon spawn, back I say!!

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And Tastycake French Apple pies are baked by Satan. BACK demon spawn, back I say!!

I'd never encountered the Tastycake brand of snacks before 2000 when I tried one at a Pennsylvania store near the A.T.

I was not pleased a few years later to find they'd spread to Ohio.

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OK, so.....

The horn line is moving and is playing loud, soft, or not at all.

The battery is moving and is playing loud, soft, or not at all.

The pit is stationary and is playing loud, soft, or not at all.

At EVERY moment in the show, there might be one or two seats or sections of seats where the entire sound is perfectly balanced to the ears sitting in those seats. That sweet spot moves throughout the performance.

If the live video mics are in the sweet spot (rarely), then we ALL get a balanced sound.

Drum corps MOVE, and so does the sound balance.

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Everyone who knows will tell you balancing a pit is much more than just "turning it down"

So true. It is about determining precisely how much to turn it down, when to turn it down, which channels to turn down more than others. But when it is obviously too loud in a manner that cannot be the fault of the performers, you can start the whole process of correcting by "just turning it down".

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Cadets are regular offenders of over-amping the pit.

And Tastycake French Apple pies are baked by Satan. BACK demon spawn, back I say!!

Definitely agree with you there. I always point people to the Cadets 2010 closer when making this point because it is probably the worst case of thunderous goo ever and it can easily be heard on the official recording!

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