Jump to content

Beanpot Invitational - Lynn, MA July 3rd


Recommended Posts

Why would judges complain? Now they don't have to deal with all the comments on the internet about their BIASES/FAVORITISM toward certain corps.

After talking to a couple of judges I know, they are still getting other judges numbers at different shows from their fellow judges and even "friends" on the corps staffs. In fact a show recently had scores that dropped 5-10 points from earlier shows, and the next night the same judges were "told" their scores were too low the night before and there was an average of 4-5 point increase the next night with the same panel. I cannot believe all these corps put in overnight changes to get that big of a bump.

JUDGES AND CO-ORDINATORS TALK TO EACH OTHER all the time (in the hotel, to and from the show, e-mails etc.,etc, and even during the shows)!

Now this is one of the most interesting posts in the thread. Lots of us noticed the scores drop from Muncie to Lisle one day and rise from Lisle to Cedarburg the next day, and in some cases by amounts not seen in DCI for years, and and nobody believed those jumps had very much to do with how the corps performed.

If I'm following you, it sounds like the judges at Lisle had not been told about the recaps from Muncie, but the judges at Cedarburg had been told about the recaps from Lisle. Yes?

And another question: who told the judges that the scores at Lisle were too low, and couldn't the judges just reply, "No, the scores at Muncie were too high"?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but sometimes boldness and frankness is required when things get so out of wack. As such, only the chronically naive can believe that its possible for all... ALL.... Corps in a show to do so poorly in their performance, that every one of them in the show competition drops in score by the truly shocking and unbelievable amount of between 5-10 points from their shows before. And only the chronically naive believe that its possible for a Corps that does a 5-6 minute undertime performances in competition can secure lots of build up points from essentially just inhaling and exhaling alone for their additional 5-6 minutes of their timed competition, that its sufficient enough to score higher than corps in their placement pecking order that had fully completed 10-11 minute shows, with music, guard, and brass playing throughout their full 10-11 minute timed competition performance.

Edited by BRASSO
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but sometimes boldness and frankness is required when things get so out of wack. As such, only the chronically naive can believe that its possible for all, ALL, corps in a show to do so poorly in their performance that every one of them in the show competition drops in score by the truly shocking and unbelievable amount of between 5-10 points from their shows before.

And only the chronically naive believe that its possible for a corps that does a 5-6 minute undertime performances in competition can secure lots of build up points from essentially just inhaling and exhaling alone for their additional 5-6 minutes of their timed competition, that its sufficient enough to score higher than corps in their placement pecking order that had fully completed 10-11 minute shows, with music, guard, and brass playing throughout the full 10-11 minute performance.

As regards the first part of your post, who do you think you're arguing with? As far as I can tell, not one participant in these forums believed that the corps' performance had any significant impact on the change in scores from Muncie to Lisle to Cedarburg. Everybody knew it was about the judging. What we didn't know was whether it was because the judges hadn't seen the previous recaps, or because they had. We still don't know that; I'm hoping that fsthnds, who seems to have some inside scoop, can tell us more.

As regards the second part of your post, I timed Blue Knights show on the Stanford webcast. It was just over 7 minutes long, which means it was only 3 minutes short, not 5-6 minutes short of what the rules require. Still deplorable, but only half as deplorable as you indicate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As regards the first part of your post, who do you think you're arguing with? As far as I can tell, not one participant in these forums believed that the corps' performance had any significant impact on the change in scores from Muncie to Lisle to Cedarburg. Everybody knew it was about the judging. What we didn't know was whether it was because the judges hadn't seen the previous recaps, or because they had. We still don't know that; I'm hoping that fsthnds, who seems to have some inside scoop, can tell us more.

As regards the second part of your post, I timed Blue Knights show on the Stanford webcast. It was just over 7 minutes long, which means it was only 3 minutes short, not 5-6 minutes short of what the rules require. Still deplorable, but only half as deplorable as you indicate.

I'm not " arguing " with anyone on here, nor find anyone" arguing " with me either.. I'm just making general observations, general assessments, and not directed to anyone on here in particular... just " in general ", thats all.

As for BK, another poster said it was a 5-6 minute performance. I'm not sure if your " 7 minutes long " timing included their pre show ( non judged ) portion or not. But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll accept that its unclear if it was " 7 minutes " or " 5-6 minutes ". Assuming it was approx 7 minutes or so thats still approx a 1/ 3rd off their required time, in which judges were then essentially giving them build up points for standing at attention, inhaling and exhaling, then the closer of marching off the field without playing in parade formation. Judges do not waive the minimum timed requirement for early shows in June. They are supposed to judge thru the minimum time requirement, even if a Corps is ill prepared for that minimum timed requirement. Thus, BK's scores... in a build up system... could not possibly have received that many build up points for their non playing parade formation visual closer... while the pit stood motionless, then walked away, with the timing clock still running. BK should thus have been in the high 40's to low 50's, or at best, the mid 50's in their competition scores vs. others in their placement pecking order that had full and completed shows in the timed competition ( Academy, Pacific Crest, Mandarins come to mind ), not a 63 range in Stanford.

Edited by BRASSO
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not " arguing " with anyone on here, nor find anyone" arguing " with me either.. I'm just making general observations, general assessments, and not directed to anyone on here in particular... just " in general ", thats all.

As for BK, another poster said it was a 5-6 minute performance. I'm not sure if your " 7 minutes long " timing included their pre show ( non judged ) portion or not. But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll accept that its unclear if it was " 7 minutes " or " 5-6 minutes ". Assuming it was approx 7 minutes or so thats still approx a 1/ 3rd of their required time, in which judges were essentially giving them build up points for standing at attention, inhaling and exhaling, then the closer of marching off the field without playing in parade formation. Judges do not waive the timed requirement for early shows in June. They are supposed to judge thru the minimum time requirement, even if a Corps is ill prepared for that minimum timed requirement. Thus, BK's cores... in a build up system... could not possibly received that many build up points fo their non playing parade formation visual closer... while the pit stood motionless, then walked away. BK should thus have been in the low 50's, or at best mid 50's in their competition scores vs. others in their placement pecking order that had full and completed shows in the timed competition ( Academy, Pacific Crest Mandarins come to mind ), not a 63 range in Stanford.

I thought we already established via an official pamphlet given out at a competition that the time required IS waived for the June shows

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought we already established via an official pamphlet given out at a competition that the time required IS waived for the June shows

Yes, but Brasso continues to be correct that simply by presenting, say, 30% less content than any other World Class corps, you'd expect BK's score to be about that much lower--unless the judges really believe that what BK is presenting would be, at full length, ten points better than what BD is presenting.

In my opinion, it's no big deal, particularly at this part of the season, but for people who prefer numbers to mean something, I get how it is frustrating.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but Brasso continues to be correct that simply by presenting, say, 30% less content than any other World Class corps, you'd expect BK's score to be about that much lower--unless the judges really believe that what BK is presenting would be, at full length, ten points better than what BD is presenting.

In my opinion, it's no big deal, particularly at this part of the season, but for people who prefer numbers to mean something, I get how it is frustrating.

I mean, I'm assuming the judges are simply adjudicating what IS on the field.

But I agree, this doesn't mean crap and DCI judging is a story of spreads anyways, not the raw score.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought we already established via an official pamphlet given out at a competition that the time required IS waived for the June shows

I believe that the waiver, is for the required time to start your show, after the previous Corps has finished. BK also was WAY over the time requirement to start their show after the Academy finished, but the penalty for this has been waived for the early season shows. This is my understanding at the moment anyway. If I'm mistaken on this, someone can certainly chime in and tell us if Corps in June are being judged on whatever the heck time THEY get to decide they want to be judged in competition with others, ie,,, 30 seconds.... 3 minutes.... 6 minutes..... 9 minutes.... full 11 minutes.... or even go on for half an hour, if they so desire in competition that day with other Corps.

Edited by BRASSO
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems the Beanpot became the judges roundtable discussion.

Was anyone jumping fences this year to gain entry. Ahhh the good ole days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but Brasso continues to be correct that simply by presenting, say, 30% less content than any other World Class corps, you'd expect BK's score to be about that much lower--unless the judges really believe that what BK is presenting would be, at full length, ten points better than what BD is presenting.

.

Exactly.... simple common sense tells us that a show that is approx. 30% less content than for example BD, if the had been fully completed ( and performed at a level that the 1st 2/3rds were performed at, and designed at ) instead of a 63, BK would have scored a mid 80's, and topped BD by more points than any Corps in modern DCI history as topped the Blue Devils. Even assuming that the last 1/3rd of BK's show might have been less steller than their 1st 2/3rds, BK would still have topped the Blue Devils by a half dozen or so points with a 63 given for a wholly undertimed show performance. But nobody here really believes that the Blue Knights would have topped the Blue Devils by some 5-10 points in Stanford had they had the remaining third of their show in. Thats why its silly to believe that BK 's score of 63 was anything but a laugher, a huge sympathy gift on the part of the judges there, and sadly a real kick in the pants to Corps like Academy, Pacific Crest, Mandarins who worked hard to have complete shows, but got really nothing out of it compared to BK on the West Coast. BK should have received a score of high 40's, or low 50's for such a massively shorthened, and ill prepared show performance for this late June show out there, imo. BK has a rep now of doing this every year. But if BK got a 48 for a score, we can bet your life that BK would never be so unprepared like this ever again. And yes, I DID see their show live in Stanford ( DCI webcast ) and enjoyed immensely what little they did have ready for us. But thats really beside the point here, imo.... p.s.. my comments N.E. Brigand are not directed to you here, per se... just a general observation meant for those reading the general commentary.

Edited by BRASSO
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...