Where is DCI?

[N.E. Brigand]

Its not even the cost of the props. Look at the sound rig Bloo uses. While those props are a part of the show design, look at the overall packaging. What you cannot see is the amount of money spent from Crown, BD, Cadets, etc on the show design itself. It's not really a secret that the highest-paid in the activity are the ones working in those places from a design aspect. There's also the money thrown into supporting groups. Look at the small village that rolls into town when these groups show up versus what others are touring with.

Not that there needs to be a salary cap (well, if it's "marching music's major league", maybe there should be, just like the other major leagues), but perhaps there could be a listing of corps' budgets like MLB does with each team's spending.

I think you'll notice a vast difference in money spent (even in some of those in the bottom 6) from the top 4 groups.

I think the general idea of the anti-parity crowd, if you will, is that as corps demonstrate incremental improvement, they attract a few more members and/or a few new sponsors, both of which help with the budget, which enables them to hire better designers and instructors, and thus compete with the next tier above them. And wash, rinse, repeat. In this way, over a period of, say, twenty years or so, they go from being new to World Class to being able to compete with the very elite.

[N.E. Brigand]

Sure they would be "drum corps". The people at DCI who have the votes define just what the DCI version of drum corps is.

Sure, the directors can play at being Lewis Carroll's Humpty-Dumpty, but that doesn't mean they're right. If George Hopkins decides to tell you that the Cleveland Orchestra is now a drum corps, because he and his fellows have decided it is so, are you going to believe him?

[N.E. Brigand]

And what people fail to see is that the activity is growing.

2013 -- 22W 17O (& Soundsport started)

2014 -- 22W 18O

2015 -- 22W 26O

2016 -- 22W 28O

I took these all from dciscores.com because Open has groups that don't compete at Finals yet. So the Soundsport transition to Open Class has been doing its job, as you can see. Soon we will be able to move some Open to World (like Genesis).

Yes, DCI has been growing slowly the past few years, thank goodness. In a few years, there may be as many competing corps as there were ten years ago.

FYI, your last number is incorrect. There are only 25 Open Class corps this year. That list you cite includes three organizations that didn't field a corps in 2016: Blue Saints, Eruption, and Racine Scouts.

[fsubone]

I think the general idea of the anti-parity crowd, if you will, is that as corps demonstrate incremental improvement, they attract a few more members and/or a few new sponsors, both of which help with the budget, which enables them to hire better designers and instructors, and thus compete with the next tier above them. And wash, rinse, repeat. In this way, over a period of, say, twenty years or so, they go from being new to World Class to being able to compete with the very elite.

It's the college football quandary. How does a program get better and more consistent? Good recruits and winning? How do you get good recruits? Win games, and give them a reason to come there. Just like corps, you want the best marchers and performers? Give them a reason to come there, and be successful. Then you get successful with the better recruits, which breeds more success, and more income, and more upgrades, which brings in even better recruits, and you get more successful, and so on and so forth. It's a cycle of do better, get better things, then do better again.

[Jeff Ream]

DCI did not want to use judging associations as its source of judges; that much is true as I recall (rapidly fading memories). But as for DCI killing the associations, no, I disagree. The decline of the smaller circuits sealed the fate of many associations, not DCI. Some did manage to survive in my area, such as NJA and MAA, who both migrated to the band world with TOB and EMBA respectively. NJA is still a large and thriving association with TOB...some of their judges are very active posters here, actually.

NJA got involved in bands way back, and we have members that judge in DCA...I think a few are currently trialing for DCI.But we have some legends on our roster or Hall of Fame that have judged DCI

http://www.njatob.org/nja/nja-hall-of-fame

[Jeff Ream]

Oh, I'm with you on all of this. I think we can all agree that when we hear too much synth bass and other types of amped-up "gooo" that we likely cringe. With all the advances in how to use the electronics in the pit I am still baffled by the lack of musicality that some corps show for balancing bass.

No matter what these corps do and how they use all the voices they have in their palette, there has to be more moments where we hear drums and brass. I can take some synth, a mic'd solo, some voice, strings, and other sounds, but ultimately the best shows can feature their brass and drums more than the other sounds.

I still find narration unnecessary, usually cheesy, and often preachy.

if used sparingly or done well...my fave is the Mandarins the other year believe it or not....it works.

the trick to balance is IMO, know your venues, and B) have someone with real sound training run the board or at least teach those that do. To this day, I cannot think of a time BD seemed out of balance electronics to the rest. Ever.

[Jeff Ream]

There may be more money, but less drum corps. And the more I think about it, the more profound that inelegant phrase becomes.

We should try to remember that one of the primary reasons there ever was a drum corps activity is because it was so much cheaper to do. The founders of the activity (Legion, VFW, etc.) had marching bands too, but the higher cost of instruments was an obstacle for most posts.

Drum corps was never where the "money" was. The real money is in marching band. Instrument/equipment sales are an actual industry, whose customer base is largely subsidised by scholastic budgets. Drum corps, once a relatively popular and populous activity with hundreds of competing corps, has shrunk so precipitously that what remains appears to be more of a showroom for the marching band industry than anything else. The entire direction of the activity is driven by the industry. Show design, instruction and competitive results are determined by a surprisingly small cadre of people with overlapping interests in DCI, WGI, marching band circuits, scholastic teaching jobs and industry sales/endorsement positions. The tour swims in industry sponsorship dollars, hosted at stadiums awash in manufacturer banners. Shows themselves are exercises in "product placement", with the latest newly legalized band item (this year, trombones) inserted at the urging of sponsors in a manner similar to that of cigarettes in movies and TV.

Ultimately, this process will push woodwinds into the DCI activity. More money... less drum corps.

let's be real about woodwinds, where it seems only those that wear tinfoil hats and Hop think it's coming.

trying to maintain them in the conditions DCI faces in the summer...cause you know not every show is in a dome.....will make them so expensive, that...well....no one will want to use them, kinda like they dont want to now. companies will go broke trying to sponsor for free the amount of maintenance needed to keep woodwinds going all summer, and therefore the Cadevaliers Crowncoatsguard won't be getting freebies

[Jeff Ream]

Brainstorming is great; it opens up conversation in all directions. Don't feel bad on a personal level if some are totally against the idea and post their own views, because that is what brainstorming is for...to discuss issues from every angle.

I happen to DISAGREE with this totally. DCI was never, IMO, presiding over 500 competitive corps. Most of those smaller local-based-corps had little if anything to do with DCI. They failed all by themselves due to reasons posted many times, due to factors both within drum corps and outside in the "real world".

agreed. we keep hearing 500 or what is it...442 I think is the magic number?

half of those corps barely competed if at all. even in the heyday of VFW and Al run shows, it was the top dogs, most of whom are now out of business, and many before DCi even came around.

[Jeff Ream]

This question has been explored before on this forum. You already hear a post or two in this thread inferring that any lesser alignment with the marching band activity would have led to greater/quicker losses. Of course, we have no way of knowing what would have happened if activity leaders had ever committed their business and creative resources to the mission of promoting and preserving drum and bugle corps, instead of an activity loosely defined by euphemisms like "the competitive musical sport".

wait...so all those ludwig and conn seltzer ads in my old porgams from the 60's....before DCI....weren't "following the money"?

you mean how certain directors got to have their say at judging meetings?

read Don Warrens book. a lot of that which you blame on DCI happened BEFORE DCI.

[cixelsyd]

let's be real about woodwinds, where it seems only those that wear tinfoil hats and Hop think it's coming.

trying to maintain them in the conditions DCI faces in the summer...cause you know not every show is in a dome.....will make them so expensive, that...well....no one will want to use them, kinda like they dont want to now. companies will go broke trying to sponsor for free the amount of maintenance needed to keep woodwinds going all summer, and therefore the Cadevaliers Crowncoatsguard won't be getting freebies

Remember when we were told that trombones would only be a solo/cameo instrument, and no one would ever march a section of them in the drill? Or how pit amplification was over $10,000 just to get into the game, so only full size corps would ever use it? How about Bb/F brass being "optional"?

Every one of these equipment rule change proposals has been preceded by people "in the know" telling me there is nowhere near the support needed to pass. When that proposal does come in a few years, there will still be people insisting it has no chance of passing, nothing to see here, blah blah blah.

(And please, spare us the silly argument about maintenance. Bands all over the country use woodwinds in every conceivable climate. Nowhere do you see a circuit where bands omit woodwinds because it is too hot/too cold/too dry/too wet. Ultimately, they will be used no matter what the maintenance burden. Look at the burden we already have. Just watch the corps setting up, with props and stages carried by additional trailers and/or dozens of corps members, while others carry the multiple brass instruments they will swap in/out during the show, lugging huge speakers, running dozens of cables in two minutes flat. You think these same corps will balk at woodwinds because that would require too much extra care?)