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Well, this is only so, if you put Arizona in the mid-west! Those of us in the 48th State lean more to the West-West.

OK lets move BK and Academy to the west. Now we have top 12 = 10 from the west and 2 from the east.

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me, during this scv pit intro

Boy and girls it's time to get over the Troopers uniforms. This corps is really quite amazing.

I think you are WAY off on your analysis here. To say Bluecoats don't have a difficult visual program is flat out wrong. Now, if you wish to say their visual program is not AS difficult as say BD or

Can I just point out how happy I am that Academy is in the top 12 so far? I really really hope they make a finals push this year!

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I am new to this level of competition. My first DCI was last year. I need some guidance.

-It seems that there are four tiers with the upper 4-5 as the top tier, true?

-Can Open class groups eventually be classified as World Class?

-Are electronics and powered speakers and microphones limited?

-Is added volume from the field and players limited? Some groups obviously cranked it up.

-Do the judges discuss scores to derive a final total?

-Will these scores have an impact for Indy?

Sorry of the Q's...I am learning.

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Seriously. I'm not a BD homer by any means - but I think they probably have the best show, on paper. Whether or not they realize the potential of their show, I don't know, but they always seem to max their show out.

Bluecoats just don't have a difficult visual program. I love the concept - I really do - but when choosing such a program that requires the judges to be more open minded, the judges combined are naturally going to have more so a different take on where they would like to see this show go than they would a more traditional program. In other words, the opinions of the judges on what the corps needs to do to bring this show more to life are going to vary wildly from one to another more than they would vary to, say, SCV's show.

I think you are WAY off on your analysis here. To say Bluecoats don't have a difficult visual program is flat out wrong. Now, if you wish to say their visual program is not AS difficult as say BD or Crown. Fine, but I would disagree with that too.

If you watch the body work Bloo does, the sheer physical nature of the moves, movement, running, marching, even sliding and climbing, you will find that Bloo has as much visual demand as most corps out there.

More to the point, I think your use of the word "demand" is misleading you, and I've seen two other posts of yours eluding to this demand thing. This is no longer the 1990s where flying around on the field at light speed (like Cadets 92, 93, 95, Star 90, 91, 92, etc) is considered to be that one thing that separates the big boys.

In the early 2000s the Cavaliers refined the visual and puled back on speed and sheer velocity. They employed sequenced movement of similar ideas, use much more symmetry or a geometric approach to visual, and that helped to change the activity.

From 2007 onward it has been the Blue Devils who have changed the landscape of visual programs with incorporated body movement, play acting, straight up marching, a lot more jazz running, and much more integration with the guard. We've seen BD win many titles with shows that folks would say were not whiplash or speedy or demanding in a traditional marching kind of way. But they were demanding, just in a different way.

The Cadets in 2015 had as ferocious and speedy of a drill as you will find (short of their In The Spring show in 93 or perhaps the 97 show), and what that got them was 4th. Just being demanding for the sake of demand does not work today. And too much demand will set you back, even if it works in your show.

This year Bloo, Crown, and BD are employing staging, body movement, guard and corps interplay, dance, jazz running, and some traditional marching. None of these 3 corps are going "mad" with velocity and crazy whiplash kinds of moves that we once saw in the 90s. That era is over. It was fun while it lasted, but it also produced a lot of sloppy shows, even come finals.

Today the DCI judges prefer well-designed, clean, and meaningful shows over sloppy, crazy hard shows. Clean wins. Peaking is exactly what the corps are trying to do, just at the right time. Crown and Bluecoats have figured out how to at least compete with BD. You MUST clean your product and have solid meaning in the theme/concept, and you must employ a lot of different types of demand, like body, dance, play acting, integration with guard, and not just demand in traditional whip-lash marching.

Today, performing an overly difficult brass and percussion book while also trying to march a crazy drill will make it hard to clean until the end, and even then if your show theme doesn't line up you may find yourself looking at 4th, 5th, or lower. Depends on the corps and the talent and/or instruction.

The old BIG 3 used to be Blue Devils, Cadets, and Cavaliers. Not anymore. Today it's Blue Devils, Bluecoats, and Carolina Crown. Cavaliers seem to be resurfacing, but they still have a ways to go to be top 3. The Cadets were 5th in 2006, 2008, 2010, 4th in 2012 and 2015, and now are looking at 5th or 6th in 2016. So despite some great years in there, too, they are no longer that Big 3 type of corps.

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Can I just point out how happy I am that Academy is in the top 12 so far? I really really hope they make a finals push this year!

Have not said anything about Academy.

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I am new to this level of competition. My first DCI was last year. I need some guidance.

-It seems that there are four tiers with the upper 4-5 as the top tier, true?

-Can Open class groups eventually be classified as World Class?

-Are electronics and powered speakers and microphones limited?

-Is added volume from the field and players limited? Some groups obviously cranked it up.

-Do the judges discuss scores to derive a final total?

-Will these scores have an impact for Indy?

Sorry of the Q's...I am learning.

Going in order here...

-I would say the top 3 is the top tier, followed by 4-6, 7-9, 10-11, and 12-15.

-Yes, except for feeder corps such as Blue Devils B and Vanguard Cadets.

-As far as I know, there are no limits on electronics or amplification.

-See above.

-Not really. Each individual judge writes down a score in their category after the performance is over, and then all of those scores are calculated to make the final score.

-Yes. The order for Prelims will be based on each corps's average score from San Antonio, Atlanta and Allentown.

Edited by Cadevilina Crown
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How is Pennsylvania not in New England?

It's pretty easy... Pennsylvania is not in New England... neither is New York for that matter.
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As we all know, it is of the utmost importance to argue about irrelevant topics on DCP. :satisfied:

That being said, as a native New Englander, I take this argument kinda seriously. It's borderline offensive for someone to suggest lumping us together with New York and New Jersey! :tounge2:

I don't know if you're trolling, or trying to be serious? New England is a very culturally distinct region of the country, with unique regional cuisines, accents, vernacular, and traditions.

NJ / NY were part of The Dominion of New England for 3 years in the late 1600s (1686-89). I don't really think that qualifies for considering NY/NJ as having any real historical / cultural connection to New England, with the exception of common American culture/history shared by all of the original 13 colonies.

As others have said, try telling a New Yorker or someone from New Jersey that they are actually a part of New England. It won't go well.

Cape May ,New Jersey is further south than Baltimore, Maryland, Pa. has a seaport on the Great Lakes, N'east Pa is a higher latitude than New Haven ,Connecticut

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Going in order here...

-I would say the top 3 is the top tier, followed by 4-6, 7-9, 10-11, and 12-15.

-Yes, except for feeder corps such as Blue Devils B and Vanguard Cadets.

-As far as I know, there are no limits on electronics or amplification.

-See above.

-Not really. Each individual judge writes down a score in their category after the performance is over, and then all of those scores are calculated to make the final score.

-Yes. The order for Prelims will be based on each corps's average score from San Antonio, Atlanta and Allentown.

And really, there aren't any "tiers". It's just how we here on DCP are classifying them.
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