garfield Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) What happens to the battery book if there is no judge on the field? I believe this was discussed way earlier in this tread, pointing to the lack of complexity now in BOA. Plain and simple, you will never hear every note of a show from the battery. I get where Mike Jackson is coming from, but it would be a shame is these amazing books that are pushing the MM skill sets forward were watered down because they weren't getting the attention throughout the show. Could there be a "Battery Field Judge" and a "Front Ensemble Field Judge"? The current on field judge is having to split time between the two, which is causing more situations of weaving through brass and color guard drill. If the current Percussion Ensemble Judge became a "Front Ensemble Field Judge" this could allow a "Battery Field Judge" to stay with just battery. You could still average the two scores together for a total percussion score. As for the percussion ensemble as a whole being judged, couldn't that be incorporated into the Musical Analysis Judge's criteria, as well as "Music GE"? Can the drill writers give more space in front of the battery? I get that visually you want to have as much complexity as will allow, but could you create a bit of space for a judge to be on the field but not affect the other MMs? If a sub-caption is not able to be focused on the entirety of a show doesn't that take away from what that section is able to do? Will adding a bit more space decrease the Visual Analysis and "Visual GE" scores that much? Of course they can, but here's a more interesting idea: Make the judges PART of the drill. Plant the JUDGE on the 50 just inside the hash (for example) and let him stand there and not move, then design the show around that point. During the ballad, for instance, he can move to the sidelines to view the FE (if there's not an independent FE judge, which there absolutely should be), then move him to another point on the field and have him stay there while the battery moves around him. Even give him back a 'tic' option so that if any of the battery touches him his can ding their score! (I kid, really.) Or, have the drill software identify the spots in each show (for example, between the hashes and inside the 35's) where no MM's ever cross and give these "spot identifiers" to the judge before each show. This keeps creativity creativity in the drill design to "parade" the battery past the judge when desired but keeps the judge close to the battery even when the design moves them back field. Thinking outside the box to retain creativity and execution demand is a better solution than the much simpler and less creative solution of removing the judge from the field entirely, IMO. Edited August 26, 2016 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnitzel Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) There's a lot lot of really interesting and creative ideas in this thread, but the harsh truth is that no other caption is going to be willing to "take a hit" to make the percussion batterys more accessible to a field judge. That's not the way the activity is headed anytime soon. As to the quality/complexity of the writing, you can make the case that: The composition will be more focused on serving the music and total program - no "field filler" needed. The perceived complexities and demands of the written composition will be every bit as important as they are now. Tunings of the instruments will be almost completely focused on projection to a listener focal point, rather than "pleasing" a judge in the middle of the ensemble. The efficiency and focus on definition and real clarity will require a heightened sense of compositional integrity from the percussion arrangers, as well as the brass writer, so that ALL the material can be assessed and credited in isolation and in total. Some/most/all of the audience will hear what the judge hears, and then can make a more informed opinion on "who's good." Every corps will have the same opportunities from the same judge in the same position - no dependance on where the judge happens to be based on visual designs. The judge can focus up to 100% of their attention to assessing the performance, instead of dodging all manner of moving people and WMDs in the field. IMO, the comparisons to BOA bands are moot - different system, philosophy, and activity, BUT - the DCA corps are very positive about the change to off-field judging 2 seasons ago, and the quality of lines and writing HAS GROWN! There's no doubt that the "change" will alter the relationship between judge and performer a little bit, but no other judge and section had/has that dynamic, anyway. An expert would call it Assessment Inconsistency. The change will give designers another tool to use - greater experimentation with sectional/instrumental placements and motion, more possible variety of sounds and imaging, etc.. You think "the box" Bluecoats opened this Summer will be closed in 2017? Edited August 26, 2016 by Schnitzel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) For what its worth, without a field judge at finals week this summer, Bluecoats win the Sanford. Take that into consideration. Not saying its a good or a bad thing. Just an observation based on the recap. Edited August 26, 2016 by actucker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) For what its worth, without a field judge at finals week this summer, Bluecoats win the Sanford. Take that into consideration. Not saying its a good or a bad thing. Just an observation based on the recap. Doesn't matter. When you judge the "whole product" because the other captions don't like it that drums have their own judge, 'Coats were supposed to win. Didn't matter that, up close, they were dirty as camel snot. The visual caption of the "whole product" trumps technical expertise. "LOOK! They can play while mic'd, standing on a prop! WOW! 10! 10! 10!" "LOOK! They can play tenors while hanging upside down! KOOL! 10! 10! 10!" Get ready. WGI is about to explode and DCI is about to scratch its head again, this time at why drummers have stopped coming to November tryouts to pay $3000 to work their butts off in the heat to play watered-down 8's on a hand to please the judge 100 yards away. GREAT! Edited August 26, 2016 by garfield 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Doesn't matter. When you judge the "whole product" because the other captions don't like it that drums have their own judge, 'Coats were supposed to win. Didn't matter that, up close, they were dirty as camel snot. The visual caption of the "whole product" trumps technical expertise. "LOOK! They can play while mic'd, standing on a prop! WOW! 10! 10! 10!" "LOOK! They can play tenors while hanging upside down! KOOL! 10! 10! 10!" Get ready. WGI is about to explode and DCI is about to scratch its head again, this time at why drummers have stopped coming to November tryouts to pay $3000 to work their butts off in the heat to play watered-down 8's on a hand to please the judge 100 yards away. GREAT! If "dirty as camel snot" gets you second on the field at finals, I hate to imagine how dirty 3 through 12 was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 If "dirty as camel snot" gets you second on the field at finals, I hate to imagine how dirty 3 through 12 was. Think "the other end of the camel". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) I say let the upstairs guy only to be the one to judge the front ensemble, and then the overall coordination with the battery. After all, everything they do is over-emoted so it is certainly clear from up there. Field judge can just cover the battery. Edited August 26, 2016 by c mor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Didn't matter that, up close, they were dirty as camel snot. The visual caption of the "whole product" trumps technical expertise. It is a bit ironic IMO...this modern call for judges "off-the-field". Back in 1973 and other years during the tic-system era there was a panel of 9 judges....of that 9...6 of them were field judges with only 3 of the judges in the box...technical expertise was the norm then... Edited August 28, 2016 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 In an enclosed stadium with a judge removed from the field, best rim shots win. It's that simple. At times I've complained that music has suffered at the hands of visual insanity. More proof coming. Get ready for filler galore 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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