BRASSO Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) To the point of Transfer Policies, you don't need to put a policy in place, but corps could easily combat this with multiyear contracts. If tour fees are $2,000 (just picking a number), a corps could easily offer a member with 3 years left before aging out a 30% discount and a locked in rate if they decide to age out with that corps. In this system, a member gets to march a $2k/year corps for $1,400, and that rate is locked at $1,400 even if the next year the fees go up, and the corps stops them from jumping ship (unless the member pays the $1,700 to the corps in addition to whatever they owe the new corps). You can't force a member to march again, obviously, so the member could just as easily skip out by not marching a year. I believe DCI already has a policy that says you can't march with one corps with you owe another corps money., so this works. I'm for DCI to at least begin the discussions on this. But even a discussion on how it might ( or might not ) work isn't even in the realm of possibility for DCI to undertake such discussions. Keep in mind that powerful, influential forces within DCI would consider this a direct threat to their domination, so without them on board for even a serious discussion on this ( let alone an implementation ), its all just a complete non starter at the moment. ( and I realize this )..... ps, I'm not a Johnny come lately to the need for a DCI Transfer Policy, as I've been for one since the beginnings of DCI itself ( 1972). I've come this far without its implemenation, so I certainly live until my last breath watching BD continue in the medals circle without it (haha!) Edited July 29, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Yes. you" did miss something", it would appear. I said above ( quote )" while its not practical " there is nothing to prevent transfers from Corps to Corps at any time during the competition season. DCI has no codified transfer policy in place... midseason or otherwise. My reply was not primarily about transfers mid season however. I go much further with this for needed " change ". I'm for a transfer policy implementation that is primarily geared for off season transfers between Corps. I " get " that there is little to no ( current ) support for this. I don't care. I only responded to the OP's thread on what is needed to shake things up, thats all. I did not start this thread topic. I only brought up ( again ) what is needed, imo. Which happens more often, incidentally ? My reply to the OP's thread topic, that a reasonable, sensible, transfer policy ( that Drum Corps used to have ) is needed, or the number of times we witness Blue Devils 1st place celebrations ? I'm personally ok with the Blue Devils domination of competition in a league like no other group's domination in any other league in the civilized world. I would imagine most here are not delusional to think that BD's utter domination in DCI won't continue for the next 50 years as well under the current " no transfer policy " highly unusual system. We like not having any transfer policies in place as much as we like to see one group so dominate, partially at least, due to having no such sensible transfer policies in place. So... BD will likely continue their domination of DCI for the next 50 years too, so what more can I tell you, the OP'er, or others on here ?,.. so thats that. Seems you added more so I will address it. Yes about 100 years ago there was a stupid transfer policy , something like 2 years, News flash , it didnt work then either. Most corps and people got around it. I can tell you that 1st hand... Next you say and ALWAYS address this as reasonable an sensible. Well those 2 worlds are only yours it seems. Another news flash which I dont criticize you for because you just may not understand personally , BD and others great corps , with or without a transfer policy WILL continue to do well. BD and others are good at what they do and unless something changes within their own organization they will continue to dominate. Transfer policies will never change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWhoWaits Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) In addition to the data on average age for each corps, some other interesting numbers would be number of years marching DCI and number of years with current corps. I have heard (anecdotally) that BD leads DCI in "rook-outs" - rookies with the corps during their age-out year. It would be interesting to compare reality to perception in the activity. Edited July 29, 2016 by HeWhoWaits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) To the point of Transfer Policies, you don't need to put a policy in place, but corps could easily combat this with multiyear contracts. If tour fees are $2,000 (just picking a number), a corps could easily offer a member with 3 years left before aging out a 30% discount and a locked in rate if they decide to age out with that corps. In this system, a member gets to march a $2k/year corps for $1,400, and that rate is locked at $1,400 even if the next year the fees go up, and the corps stops them from jumping ship (unless the member pays the $1,700 to the corps in addition to whatever they owe the new corps). You can't force a member to march again, obviously, so the member could just as easily skip out by not marching a year. I believe DCI already has a policy that says you can't march with one corps with you owe another corps money., so this works. To the point of Design Teams and Staff, which no one seems to be talking about, this really is the biggest thing. Just picking two corps here, one from the bottom and one from the top, if you were to to somehow switch all the members from Jersey Surf (currently ranked 20th) and Carolina Crown (currently ranked 3rd) and switch them, but leave the show design and staffs exactly the same, you'd still see very similar placements. Talent's important, but the talent gap isn't nearly as wide as some think it is. There's a reason corps often drop as far as they do when key staff members leave or they get stuck with a rough show. Any corps can do this offering a multi year discount. I can tell you I saw a few independent winter programs trying this quite a while ago. People will do what they want and money will not be a motivator for most. I saw it happen. A few might BUT most, never imo. Also as far as owing money etc etc .. does it work In many cases yes. Often No it hasn't. If you want to really get into that just ask corps like Magic, and many others who fell prey to this so called rule. Edited July 29, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Any corps can do this offering a multi year discount. I can tell you I saw a few independent winter programs trying this quite a while ago. People will do what they want and money will not be a motivator for most. I saw it happen. A few might BUT most, never imo. Also as far as owing money etc etc .. does it work In many cases yes. Often No it hasn't. If you want to really get into that just ask corps like Magic, and many others who fell prey to this so called rule. the lock-in contract assumes the MM will trade $ for the chance of marching with their "dream corps". not gonna happen. OTOH I'll bet BK , Academy, and Crossmen are going to be holding on to their membership a little more successfully this off season. Nothing more exciting than being part of program where things (staff, admin, design) are actively pushing them up the rankings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) the lock-in contract assumes the MM will trade $ for the chance of marching with their "dream corps". not gonna happen. OTOH I'll bet BK , Academy, and Crossmen are going to be holding on to their membership a little more successfully this off season. Nothing more exciting than being part of program where things (staff, admin, design) are actively pushing them up the rankings. Yup Yup... One has to actually talk to those who audition to see and hear what their wants and needs are. I can tell you money is a very temporary motivation in my experience and a lock in to any policy will be a total deterrent to many perspective members now a days. Great way to destroy the activity imo Dont get me wrong, in a perfect world it would be nice to see kids stay in certain corps and make them better BUT often the reason for not getting better has nothing to do with the members themselves Edited July 29, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) I was gonna say that. Im sure to make it there he also has to have alot more maturity than alot of adults with so called experienceRegardless of why it happens, the average age (and experience) of a medaling corps is higher than the corps that are not. Yes, a lot plays into a championship show, but you cannot put a show on the field with the demand of Cadets, BD, Coats, Crown and Vanguard with a corps dominated by teenagers. I mean come on, it really isn't arguable. Look at the average age of Blue Devils B and C, and Vanguard Cadets. Look at the shows they put on the field. Great shows, for sure, but they ain't medaling.I will add, for the record, that I think transfer policies or any kind of player personnel system is absurd in an activity in which kids pay to be in it, and are not obligated to show up if they get signed and traded. That is why I say the only "solution" to this issue is more great marchers competing for roster spots. Edited July 29, 2016 by MikeRapp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Yup Yup... One has to actually talk to those who audition to see and hear what their wants and needs are. I can tell you money is a very temporary motivation in my experience and a lock in to any policy will be a total deterrent to many perspective members now a days. Great way to destroy the activity imo Dont get me wrong, in a perfect world it would be nice to see kids stay in certain corps and make them better BUT often the reason for not getting better has nothing to do with the members themselves As I've said a million times already, lower tier corps have first crack at these kids. They have them for an entire season (10 months!) . IMO that is a huge opportunity. If you can't convince them to stay with your corps, you need to be looking at your own organization not pointing fingers at others. If a member has a season that makes him/her look forward to next season, is he/she still going to leave? Sure, some still will. But making that a really hard decision is up to the corps. Edited July 29, 2016 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Dont get me wrong, in a perfect world it would be nice to see kids stay in certain corps and make them better BUT often the reason for not getting better has nothing to do with the members themselves This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Out of curiosity, do any corps work with organizational psychologists? Everyone saying money isn't a motivating factor to keep members reminded me that that's a common theme in business too, and the business sector has found that keeping employees happy/challenged/motivated/engaged/etc. has been the best way to keep employees from jumping ship. Maybe some of those concepts can be applied to drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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