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WaxDCIFan

Marching for corn in Cedar Rapids?

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While I appreciate conspiracy theory, I think we all forget that two OC corps benefit from two of the top WC design staffs.

I agree with this, and I haven't seen either of the top 2 since Stanford so for all I know they could have really amazing shows, I certainly loved SCVC early on.

I can understand the frustration with Genesis though, the scoring has been all over the map crazy, they opened up at only 6 points below where they are now. That has be be pretty infuriating. They've jumped a few points, then jumped 9, then stayed stagnant, it's really all over the map. Looking at the scores from Alabama tonight in Open class, can't help but feel like ALL of these corps will get a big boost when they meetup in Prelims.

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I agree with this, and I haven't seen either of the top 2 since Stanford so for all I know they could have really amazing shows, I certainly loved SCVC early on.

I can understand the frustration with Genesis though, the scoring has been all over the map crazy, they opened up at only 6 points below where they are now. That has be be pretty infuriating. They've jumped a few points, then jumped 9, then stayed stagnant, it's really all over the map. Looking at the scores from Alabama tonight in Open class, can't help but feel like ALL of these corps will get a big boost when they meetup in Prelims.

So how does the Genesis staff know what to change and how to adjust when the scoring is so inconsistent??

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And an unlimited budget to purchase commercially designed computer controlled lighted props, etc. Remember they are the gatekeepers to anyone making WC right now. Don't believe the conspiracy theory? Ask around about why the existing WC corps won't allow anyone to move up right now. It's really not a secret.. #growdrumcorps

Have any Open Class corps in fact asked to move to World Class?

The corps who have medaled in O.C./Div. II over the past ten years, besides BDB and SCVC, are:

Academy -- 1st in 2006

East Coast Jazz -- 2nd in 2006

Spartans -- 3rd in 2006, 1st in 2007, 3rd in 2010, 3rd in 2015

Jersey Surf -- 2nd in 2007 and 3rd in 2008

Teal Sound -- 3rd in 2007

Citations -- 3rd in 2009

Oregon Crusaders -- 2nd in 2010, 2nd in 2011, 1st in 2012

Genesis -- 3rd in 2013, 3rd in 2014

How have these corps done since then?

Academy had a great first year in W.C., reaching 13th, then spent eight years in the mid teens. Finally, nine years after moving up, they are likely to make Finals this year and have engaged audiences a lot recently. The major success story of this group.

East Coast Jazz folded after 2006.

Spartans took 2009 off, but have been successful in O.C. for most of the past decade. Do they want to move up, or are they content competing in this circuit? I'm guessing the latter, since they probably would have been permitted to make the jump in 2008.

Jersey Surf have yet to finish higher than 20th in seven years since moving to W.C., although a couple of their shows were hits with the audience.

Teal Sound finished 20th twice, then folded mid-season.

Citations folded after 2009. (How many people now have even heard of this corps, a medalist just six years ago?)

Oregon Crusaders have finished in the low teens four times in W.C., even having been beaten by BDB and SCVC in W.C. Prelims/Semis. But they have also developed something of an audience following. Perhaps on the Academy track with a chance to make Finals by 2021.

And Genesis, prior to this year, has correctly been placed no higher than third in O.C., in my opinion--and I've seen them repeatedly since 2012, when they placed sixth with their show about a dystopian future.

Given the track record described above, it doesn't seem so unreasonable for DCI to be reluctant to promote anyone else just yet. If Genesis (or Legends or 7th Regiment or Music City or whoever) want to move up, why don't they do like Academy and Oregon (not to mention Spartans, only nine years ago): beat the cadet corps. Or at least one of them. Today's scores are a little alarming, but I think they might still have a shot.

Edited by N.E. Brigand

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So how does the Genesis staff know what to change and how to adjust when the scoring is so inconsistent??

Comments from the judges are probably more consistent than the scores indicate.

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So how does the Genesis staff know what to change and how to adjust when the scoring is so inconsistent??

See N.E., comments.

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Lots of spartans went to citations for that season. Then promptly returned the next.

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If they're a good staff, chances are they already know what to tweak. However if the corps is young and raw in talent, it won't matter until they can get them to perform with consistency. Yes. WC has to vote you into the club because it means another mouth to feed with the cash cow. But it's possible. But they need to funding to be able to tour at least like pacific crest. And the design and recruiting to blow the doors down on some other groups. It's likely tough to feed more when you've got a few who don't move much or draw much, but eat up the pot.

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No one's actually noted the scores for this show yet here, so . . .

1. 67.90 Blue Devils B

2. 67.60 Vanguard Cadets

3. 63.80 Genesis

4. 54.60 Shadow

5. 51.00 Colt Cadets

BDB and SCVC tie in both G.E. and Music.

Genesis is one point back in music, the supercaption in which they are closest to the leaders.

It should be noted that Colt Cadets are suffering as much as, or maybe more than Genesis, from the terrible Midwestern scores this year. In 26 days, their score has only improved by 1.1 pts: they scored a 49.9 on July 3.

Even if you treat that score as an aberration (their next score dropped six points), their still more than a point back from the score they had twelve days ago: they had 52.1 on July 17.

I think that some corps should be complaining mightily in the off-season about the inconsistencies this year.

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You cannot compare scores from one show to another. Different judges have a different idea of what each number is. Heck they all look at different things each night. So your chances of the same judge giving the same score on the exact same performance is nil

So you're saying that I can't look at the scores from San Antonio, when Genesis had a 64.95, and then compare it to the next Saturday when they are scored at a 63.8 and go "something's messed up"?!? That's ridiculous. The whole point of an adjudication system and a judging rubric is that you CAN compare scores from one show to another. This is exactly why judges training exists. If I can't compare scores, then DCI is pretty much not worth watching until Finals, correct? Each show would just be its own little bubble, completely separate from each and every other performance.

My thoughts are that at Open Class only shows, maybe the judging panels just aren't at the same level. It's like you go to a local band show - 9 times out of 10, the bands that are "supposed" to win, actually do, because lower level adjudicators find it hard to judge past names and inherent biases. That's why you try to go to big shows, where everyone is (more or less) anonymous. Regardless, the Midwest has been hell on earth for the Open Class corps scoring this summer. Just terrible.

Edited by patrick2460

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So you're saying that I can't look at the scores from San Antonio, when Genesis had a 64.95, and then compare it to the next Saturday when they are scored at a 63.8 and go "something's messed up"?!? That's ridiculous. The whole point of an adjudication system and a judging rubric is that you CAN compare scores from one show to another. This is exactly why judges training exists. If I can't compare scores, then DCI is pretty much not worth watching until Finals, correct? Each show would just be its own little bubble, completely separate from each and every other performance.

My thoughts are that at Open Class only shows, maybe the judging panels just aren't at the same level. It's like you go to a local band show - 9 times out of 10, the bands that are "supposed" to win, actually do, because lower level adjudicators find it hard to judge past names and inherent biases. That's why you try to go to big shows, where everyone is (more or less) anonymous. Regardless, the Midwest has been hell on earth for the Open Class corps scoring this summer. Just terrible.

Where's the like button

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