GUARDLING Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I'm glad you re-read, because the contradiction was in your post, not his. And, when you stop to realize that every MM is there of his/her own free will, and can leave at any moment of his/her own free will, the rationale of your last paragraph falls apart. Jim Jones ran a cult. Drum corps builds high-functioning adults who can transfer what they learn there to the rest of their lives to find success. They don't drink Kool-Aid except in the belief that their own, personal success is only limited by their attitude, drive, and desire to succeed. dont we all drink the kool ade so to speak. We are asked to buy into something that we fling ourselves into and not to go in and voice an opinion or be in on decisions. Same can be said for some work situations. Now drinking the Kool ade doesn't have to be a negative if one fits into the narrative. Edited August 8, 2016 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 I'm just going to put this out there: my closest friends in drum corps came from what many people consider to be the low point of my corp's history in the past decade (read: since the resurgence in '07). Adversity has just as much power to unite as it does to tear apart. It all comes down to how people decide to interpret it. Story time. Before I marched with Troop, I auditioned for one of the top 4 drum corps of the time which shall remain nameless. After getting cut from said corps two audition camps in and showing up at my first Troop camp the following month, I noticed a world of difference in the attitude of the marching members between the two corps. Corps A was gunning for a ring, and that attitude was reflected in the way the members treated each other - and not in a good way (you can be successful and push each other without being jerks). The vets shunned the auditionees pretty hard unless they had connections in the corps already, and no one seemed willing to help this little floundering rookie who was in way over his head. I found the opposite in Wyoming. Here was a corps that was also fired up to capitalize on their triumphant return to finals in 09 and start climbing the ranks. The vets wanted to do well. The pressure was on. But the members handled it differently. I made friends that first weekend, several of whom were longtime vets who wanted to see the incoming class succeed and took us under their wing. That is why I decided to make Casper my permanent drum corps home and not try to jump up the ladder in later seasons. My last season in 2012 was a rough one. There was a ridiculous amount of frustration from the members with the scores and the show design and so on. There were moments when tempers flared and words were said (or laps were run). But to this day my fondest DCI memories are from that particular hornline. There came a point in the season where the vets all got together and talked about what we could do to improve our situation, and then we went to the entire hornline with it. No matter what, we would work together and make the absolute best out of whatever the outcome was. And we did. We had (probably too much) fun that season and formed bonds that are still strong today. The point of this is that while tempers can flare, its up to the members to decide how to handle it. ESPECIALLY the vets. They set the tone. The rookies will usually feed off of how they interpret the situation. You can either stay mad at each other and let the season spiral out of control, or you can band together and ride that flaming mess out in a blaze of glory. The latter is much more fun I had reservations about starting this thread, but now I am really glad I did. Thanks for this, I really appreciate your words. Hopefully there are many marching members who read this and take it to heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) dont we all drink the kool aid so to speak. We are asked to buy into something that we fling ourselves into and not to go in and voice an opinion or be in on decisions. Same can be said for some work situations. Now drinking the Kool aid doesn't have to be a negative if one fits into the narrative. If one fits into the narrative, then many times one is not drinking the kool-ade...but rather mixing it. And I'll be kind and say that I'm speaking from the job perspective. Edited August 8, 2016 by HornTeacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) If one fits into the narrative, then many times one is not drinking the kool-ade...but rather mixing it. And I'll be kind and say that I'm speaking from the job perspective. very good point Edited August 8, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I had reservations about starting this thread, but now I am really glad I did. Thanks for this, I really appreciate your words. Hopefully there are many marching members who read this and take it to heart. If MMs are reading I can tell you from experience this is the very reason you do not take it to the internet though. I have seen many sent home for this. At least this poster didnt mention names etc etc . He/she left it up to the reader to decide BUT in the cases i speak of it was out and out bashing of their corps, staff or other members. Of course noone was sent home without fair warning BUT some people can't help themselves and continue. I had the rotten job of sending a kid home once 3 weeks before the end of the season. Sad. Edited August 8, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 A cult is an entity defined by a unique (perhaps excessive) CULTure. This is why particular movies, music etc. can have a CULT following. But for more clarification... apparently needed... I work as a public school teacher in the state of New York. I am a professional that fulfills my duties to music education as I practice with a submissive subordinate attitude toward my immediate bosses and the school board... all while opposing their bad form (as needed) as a member of a union and a voting member of the community. My ultimate bosses (the Governor of the state of NY and the Commissioner of Education) are complete fools and I openly oppose and vote against them every chance that I get. In fact, the mere idea of music education advocacy requires the open act of resistance. This is how the system looks when it is working and it doesn't resemble drumcorps by any stretch. While some experiences will help young people to better understand the dynamics of employment, some of you sadly seem to imply that "working for the man" is the all encompassing fulfilment of life. Drumcorps is an odd experience... it's not normal. And it requires a dedication against one's own whims at a level and occurrence that is very little (if at all) like a microcosm of living. I'm not saying that it doesn't teach you great lessons... I'm just moderating the glorification of a wide application that doesn't exist. I'm also pointing out that unlike in real life (life... not work) there is NEARLY zero room for individualism and self advocacy of ideas in drumcorps. I don't think that a peace circle can help in this group's situation... nor do I think that venting sessions have a place in drumcorps. I would only qualify what you are saying as this: It seems to be extremely important that a corps director truly understand the type of personalities that will succeed in their culture. If you have a type A culture, and have a lot of non type A members, you are headed for a lot of anger and disappointment. Conversely, if you have a non type A culture, but have some high achievers who expect everyone to fight for every tenth of a point...similar and in some ways even more explosive scenario. A successful company has a broad mix of personalities. That doesn't seem to work very well in drum corps. That is where I would draw a distinction between DCI and real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 A cult is an entity defined by a unique (perhaps excessive) CULTure. This is why particular movies, music etc. can have a CULT following. But for more clarification... apparently needed... I work as a public school teacher in the state of New York. I am a professional that fulfills my duties to music education as I practice with a submissive subordinate attitude toward my immediate bosses and the school board... all while opposing their bad form (as needed) as a member of a union and a voting member of the community. My ultimate bosses (the Governor of the state of NY and the Commissioner of Education) are complete fools and I openly oppose and vote against them every chance that I get. In fact, the mere idea of music education advocacy requires the open act of resistance. This is how the system looks when it is working and it doesn't resemble drumcorps by any stretch. While some experiences will help young people to better understand the dynamics of employment, some of you sadly seem to imply that "working for the man" is the all encompassing fulfilment of life. Drumcorps is an odd experience... it's not normal. And it requires a dedication against one's own whims at a level and occurrence that is very little (if at all) like a microcosm of living. I'm not saying that it doesn't teach you great lessons... I'm just moderating the glorification of a wide application that doesn't exist. I'm also pointing out that unlike in real life (life... not work) there is NEARLY zero room for individualism and self advocacy of ideas in drumcorps. I don't think that a peace circle can help in this group's situation... nor do I think that venting sessions have a place in drumcorps. Heh, by your own description, it sounds as though dissention, disagreement, and discord are all common attributes of your environment, which sounds an awful lot like the corps being described by the OP (with the exception of your open-rebuttal of your bosses). It seems that anyone who can put up with a corps like the one in question would actually thrive in your system! So how is it not "real life" again, unless you propose unionizing drum corps MM's to give them the same "voice" against their bosses that yours seems to grant you? We all look at our worlds through our own glasses, and it's not hard for me to see your perspective when I look through those lenses. But the fact of "choice" is even more poignant in drum corps if you believe it's not quite to easy to quit your profession, is it not? We might simply need to disagree but I don't think so. I think we're seeing "life" in different perspectives through different lenses. I'm seeing "happy corps" on a daily basis and you see "dysfunctional corps" on a daily basis. We might each sympathize with the other, but drum corps teaches those differences as well. There are other corps out there to try out for, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Heh, by your own description, it sounds as though dissention, disagreement, and discord are all common attributes of your environment, which sounds an awful lot like the corps being described by the OP (with the exception of your open-rebuttal of your bosses). It seems that anyone who can put up with a corps like the one in question would actually thrive in your system! So how is it not "real life" again, unless you propose unionizing drum corps MM's to give them the same "voice" against their bosses that yours seems to grant you? We all look at our worlds through our own glasses, and it's not hard for me to see your perspective when I look through those lenses. But the fact of "choice" is even more poignant in drum corps if you believe it's not quite to easy to quit your profession, is it not? We might simply need to disagree but I don't think so. I think we're seeing "life" in different perspectives through different lenses. I'm seeing "happy corps" on a daily basis and you see "dysfunctional corps" on a daily basis. We might each sympathize with the other, but drum corps teaches those differences as well. There are other corps out there to try out for, after all. You can both be right, and are. We can be Happy , happy and also quite dysfunctional...lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 You can both be right, and are. We can be Happy , happy and also quite dysfunctional...lol Just ask Bashful, Doc, Dopey, Sleepy, Sneezy, and Grumpy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Heh, by your own description, it sounds as though dissention, disagreement, and discord are all common attributes of your environment, which sounds an awful lot like the corps being described by the OP (with the exception of your open-rebuttal of your bosses). It seems that anyone who can put up with a corps like the one in question would actually thrive in your system! So how is it not "real life" again, unless you propose unionizing drum corps MM's to give them the same "voice" against their bosses that yours seems to grant you? We all look at our worlds through our own glasses, and it's not hard for me to see your perspective when I look through those lenses. But the fact of "choice" is even more poignant in drum corps if you believe it's not quite to easy to quit your profession, is it not? We might simply need to disagree but I don't think so. I think we're seeing "life" in different perspectives through different lenses. I'm seeing "happy corps" on a daily basis and you see "dysfunctional corps" on a daily basis. We might each sympathize with the other, but drum corps teaches those differences as well. There are other corps out there to try out for, after all. I could throw the word 'shtick' in here somewhere if you wish... it may bring us closer together. 😉Your assessment of my environment is essentially nonsense (and I think you know it... and are merely being sporting in our discussion). In fact your whole last post is pretty silly... I mean that with the friendliest tone.😉 Life (and most occupations) is not a production... with a concrete hierarchy of subservience. If it were... it would be an awful cult indeed. Drumcorps is a production, with a necessary subservience. This is the part that seems to have broken down here. It's a bummer. The kids would serve themselves well to go out and outperform their show and go home at the end. It's easier said than done... On a final quip... If you (anyone, not you specifically) honestly think that drumcorps isn't a cult following... then you are hopelessly lost, having had a necrotizing fill of the proverbial cool aid. Just look at this forum for goodness sake! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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