Too many amplifiers?

[Jeff Ream]

Sitting in Allentown for everyone last week, 29 rows up center, I was amazed at how well balanced most of the corps were. I'm the first to call out bad balance, and I was pleasantly surprised how good it was.

However in an enclosed stadium, underneath those amps sits a human made sound projector.... Concrete. Coupled with the roof, empty seats on the side and the quirks of the various venues DCI uses under a roof, helps cause the issues

[HockeyDad]

I'm more offended by the heinous echo of indoor drum corps, but I digress. I smile when I read that amps are needed to bring out timbre and nuance. It's like using an atom bomb to kill a fly. At the end of that excellent movie Judgement at Nuremberg is an exchange between the judge and the convicted Nazi ex-judge, Ernst Janning. Concerning the prosecution and convictions of innocents under the Nazi regime, Janning said he never thought when it began that it would spiral and come to that. The judge, played by Spencer Tracy, replied "Herr Janning, it "came to that" the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent. ". There's your metaphor for amps. It's too late. It was too late the day the first amp was allowed on the field, under what turned out to be false pretenses of "proper mallet technique".

[Jeff Ream]

I'm more offended by the heinous echo of indoor drum corps, but I digress. I smile when I read that amps are needed to bring out timbre and nuance. It's like using an atom bomb to kill a fly. At the end of that excellent movie Judgement at Nuremberg is an exchange between the judge and the convicted Nazi ex-judge, Ernst Janning. Concerning the prosecution and convictions of innocents under the Nazi regime, Janning said he never thought when it began that it would spiral and come to that. The judge, played by Spencer Tracy, replied "Herr Janning, it "came to that" the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent. ". There's your metaphor for amps. It's too late. It was too late the day the first amp was allowed on the field, under what turned out to be false pretenses of "proper mallet technique".

Proper technique is a valid point. And yes it's grown to include more. Drum corps has been about change since the first valves were added. You either accept the change, or go away. No amount of crying online is going to change it.

I think at times the electronics stuff is used as a crutch. But I know #####ing online won't change it

[HockeyDad]

Proper technique is a valid point. And yes it's grown to include more. Drum corps has been about change since the first valves were added. You either accept the change, or go away. No amount of crying online is going to change it.

I think at times the electronics stuff is used as a crutch. But I know #####ing online won't change it

Thanks for accusing me of crying online. Attack the argument, not the person. Can you do that? So, let's drop all pretenses in the name of evolution of the activity. Why is there an age limit? Drop it. Why is there a size limit? Drop it. Why is there an instrumentation restriction? Drop it. Activities distinguish from other activities by the very set of rules under which they exist. That's what sets them apart, makes them special, creates a rabid following. Suspend all rules and ..,,what's the point? Edited August 13, 2016 by HockeyDad

[Jeff Ream]

Thanks for accusing me of crying online. Attack the argument, not the person. Can you do that? So, let's drop all pretenses in the name of evolution of the activity. Why is there an age limit? Drop it. Why is there a size limit? Drop it. Why is there an instrumentation restriction? Drop it. Activities distinguish from other activities by the very set of rules under which they exist. That's what sets them apart, makes them special, creates a rabid following. Suspend all rules and ..,,what's the point?

It wasn't a personal attack. It's a statement of fact to any who share your views. DCI has shown time and time again complaining fans in dcp, and RAMD in the old days are to be mocked, not embraced. If you took it personally, that's on you.

The bottom line is the people in the game wanted these options. As technology continues to evolve, you'll see and hear more not less integration of it. I'm amazed auto tune isn't used more, or vocal fade effects. Just as my grandfathers era complained about timbales and that single tenors gave way to "multi timp toms" and my dads era complained about key changes and show themes, my generation is now complaining about electronics and who knows what's to come.

And yet, DCI sees the numbers. The current product IS drawing more fans than 10 yeas ago nationwide, and initiatives like sound sport is leading to new corps starting up.

So maybe... Just maybe... They're onto something. To date I'm still underwhelmed by trombones because it's all about slide gimmicks. But in time, they'll get past that too

[barigirl78]

This thread has helped open my ears to goo. Really. I was surprised how much amp goo was coming out of BD tonight.

Interesting, 2 corps that had the best balance. Of course, Crown. No brainier on that. They other? How about the Crossmen? Yes, the Crossmen. But then I realized the brass caption head is a former Crown guy. That's not a coincidence.

For those of you going to fortunate enough to go to finals tomorrow, you'll be amazed on how much amped bass has permiated throughout most of the corps. It's a shame when they do it just to add volume for volume's sake. Even a less loud horn line can sound loud if they vary the sound, play balanced, in control, together, and articulate well. It's why DCI cannot diminish the value of musicianship anymore than they already have.

Thank you for noticing that about the Crossmen.

It's not just the amplification of the bass that is bothering me in today's corps. It's the over-amplification of solos and groups. I've stopped watching one corps in particular because I'm mentally screaming at the sound guy--who can't hear me, of course--to turn it down. Not all solos/features need to sound like a Metallica concert. Some might be more effect sounding turned down a little.

Once I went to Paris and was concerned because I don't speak French and I heard Parisians could be tough about that. My well-traveled Irish friend said, "All you have to do is try a little and they'll like that. Then, they'll speak English." It worked. I would throw in a few basic French phrases and the waiters et al would be very nice. Why am I telling this story? Because I remember being at a restaurant and the table of Americans next to me were just screaming in English at the waiter, as if speaking it louder would make them better understood. I was embarassed for them.

Listening to one of the corps--who I won't mention by name--has reminded me of that story. They seem to think their show will be better understood by turning the amplifier up even louder. I'm embarassed for them. Any subtlety that the show might have had has been lost.

[CDN DC Fan]

Sound effects and some of the pit should be the only thing going through the amps and speakers.

Maybe part of the tour or a few shows need to be considered unplugged just like they do for professional musicians. This would show who is actually hiding behind their amps and speakers and using them as a secondary horn line. Would give the judges an idea of actually how good these horn lines are.

I love sitting in front of a horn arc before shows and listening to pure brass.

[actucker]

I'm more offended by the heinous echo of indoor drum corps, but I digress. I smile when I read that amps are needed to bring out timbre and nuance. It's like using an atom bomb to kill a fly. At the end of that excellent movie Judgement at Nuremberg is an exchange between the judge and the convicted Nazi ex-judge, Ernst Janning. Concerning the prosecution and convictions of innocents under the Nazi regime, Janning said he never thought when it began that it would spiral and come to that. The judge, played by Spencer Tracy, replied "Herr Janning, it "came to that" the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent. ". There's your metaphor for amps. It's too late. It was too late the day the first amp was allowed on the field, under what turned out to be false pretenses of "proper mallet technique".

Yeah, I'm going to stop you there. I generally stay out of this argument, but this one crosses a line. There is no false pretense behind the argument that proper mallet technique is more possible with amplification. Its a fact. You and I are not going to see eye to eye on a lot, and I'm not even going to get into the greater scope of electronics, but this is clearly a topic you know nothing about or you wouldn't make a sweeping accusation like that. You're just incorrect. There's nothing more to it.

[HockeyDad]

Yeah, I'm going to stop you there. I generally stay out of this argument, but this one crosses a line. There is no false pretense behind the argument that proper mallet technique is more possible with amplification. Its a fact. You and I are not going to see eye to eye on a lot, and I'm not even going to get into the greater scope of electronics, but this is clearly a topic you know nothing about or you wouldn't make a sweeping accusation like that. You're just incorrect. There's nothing more to it.

Reading comprehension problem? Amps were justified based on allowing proper mallet technique. I never disagreed with that. Please reread my post. My point was, once the door was cracked open, it blew up way beyond use of an amp to facilitate the pit instruments.

[Fran Haring]

I was at a DCA show recently where, because of rainy weather that evening, the corps were given the option of performing without any electronics, or without their front ensembles at all.

From the press box, I absolutely noticed a difference in the front ensembles who were not plugged in vs. those who were. And honestly, I liked the plugged-in sound better. The flip side to that was.... the lack of electronics seemed to hurt one corps in particular whose shows relies a great deal on electronic effects. Live by the sword, die by the sword. LOL

I'm not a big fan of the low-end synth stuff... but like others have said on here, it's a matter of corps figuring out how to use all the tools they have available to them in a professional manner.

Overall, I think more corps are handling things better now than a few years ago.