Madison Scouts 2017

[Cappybara]

1 hour ago, DrumManTx said:

Love that show.

I fangirl to that show to this day 

[ndkbass]

1 hour ago, henry7184 said:

For me it has nothing to do with narration, singing, trombones, narration, amps, synths, and other electronics. It has to do, primarily, with lack of sustainable melody, all the chop and bop arrangements, and hornlines playing less today. I timed them all last year (timing when more than just a soloist or small ensemble was playing), and Crossmen played for just over 5 minutes, Crown was just over 8 (which is close to back in the day). Everyone else was in between.

I mean Cavaliers are playing 9 different pieces in an 11 minute show. How can you possibly have well crafted music with that many pieces. It's not just them either. Just my opinion of course, but I don't think I will be going to any more shows. I have FloMarching this year, and I'll continue that through the season. But, maybe next year it will be cheaper to just watch videos that appear online. I was so tired Monday morning and so disappointed, as a whole, with that I saw at Stanford. Good money spent. Time lost where I could be doing something else. No enough reward for the risk going forward, I fear.

What intrigues me is that sometimes I like the chop and bop, and sometimes I do not.  It's not the musical selection of Scouts that turns me off.  It is the arrangement.  It does not chop and bop in a way that grooves me I guess.

[MotoSurfBass]

14 hours ago, FlamMan said:

The Snareline is tick city. Fuzz everywhere. They have a lot of work to do.

It's June.

[Jake W.]

2 hours ago, henry7184 said:

For me it has nothing to do with narration, singing, trombones, narration, amps, synths, and other electronics. It has to do, primarily, with lack of sustainable melody, all the chop and bop arrangements, and hornlines playing less today. I timed them all last year (timing when more than just a soloist or small ensemble was playing), and Crossmen played for just over 5 minutes, Crown was just over 8 (which is close to back in the day). Everyone else was in between.

I mean Cavaliers are playing 9 different pieces in an 11 minute show. How can you possibly have well crafted music with that many pieces. It's not just them either. Just my opinion of course, but I don't think I will be going to any more shows. I have FloMarching this year, and I'll continue that through the season. But, maybe next year it will be cheaper to just watch videos that appear online. I was so tired Monday morning and so disappointed, as a whole, with that I saw at Stanford. Good money spent. Time lost where I could be doing something else. No enough reward for the risk going forward, I fear.

Oh my god, I spent all last season (happily) arguing with various members on the 2016 Scouts thread about the "chop 'n' bop" arrangement style, are we really going to do it again this year?

New trends are tried in our beloved activity all the time. The good ones stick, the bad ones don't. A couple "bad ones" , in my mind, that thankfully didn't stick: all original music books for the top corps over using real source music, and the trendy fad of arranging 967 pieces of music into one thick, new tapestry. Blue Devils, of course, pioneered this arranging style, culminating with "Through a Glass, Darkly", the whole point of which was to morph and mesh popular drum corps tunes into an entirely new musical quilt. They also used this style in the various years surrounding 2010 to create some of my least favorite championship music books, although I always appreciate their depth. 

But even BD started bucking their own trend last season, with their entire Giachinno ballad standing on its own merit, unaltered. They're at t again with Flight of the Bumblebee this year. Bloo & Crown are really leading the way *AWAY* from this trend (and Cadets, to some extent, who never succumbed to it, either out of stubbornness or just a general lack of awareness of what is fashionable at any given moment in drum corps), and as of last year, the vast majority of corps seem to be following Bloo & Crown away from chop 'n' bop. I'll even wager that the 2016 & 2017 music books, from 1 - 22 (23 this year) are much more enjoyable than, say, the top to bottom music books of 2014 or 2015. Trends come and go, the good ones stick, and this arrangement style seems to be fading rapidly, save for a few corps like Scouts last year who embraced it about two years too late and then complained that their show paled to everyone else's flowing musicality. Cavies this year are included, but try to find me a few more corps that make Cavies the rule rather than the exception.

I'll add another layer, too: using source material that lacks a hummable melody does NOT equate to chop 'n' bop. Scouts this year have fleshed out Music for Prague & Miraculous Mandarin in some really nice ways. Neither piece is hummable, but so many of those famous Husa cluster chords and suspensions are INSTANTLY recognizable to most of us, and they're allowed to stand on their own, unedited. The Bartok piece has the famous frenzied cello melody lifted and translated pretty nicely to the brass & pit, although not performed well at all yet. Again, the use of atonal source material does not mean that a chop 'n' bop arranging style was used. I quite like the Scouts' book this year, and if it's cleaned and fleshed out properly, I believe will be incredibly musical and audience-friendly by August. They're just cleaning some "out there" stuff, and finding the musicality in this book is a different beast than screamers during standard jazz charts or than making famous Broadway melodies sing. 

 

[mjoakes]

19 minutes ago, Jake W. said:

but so many of those famous Husa cluster chords and suspensions are INSTANTLY recognizable to most of us

And "us" is whom? Arrangers, music directors, music professors? I'm a fan of the Scouts show this year, but there's much in DCI that is not at all recognizable to bunches of fans. That includes parents and donors putting up substantial funds, the total of which surely is not on the small side of "most." Please don't assume us away.

[henry7184]

1 minute ago, mjoakes said:

And "us" is whom? Arrangers, music directors, music professors? I'm a fan of the Scouts show this year, but there's much in DCI that is not at all recognizable to bunches of fans. That includes parents and donors putting up substantial funds, the total of which surely is not on the small side of "most." Please don't assume us away.

Yes. Today shows are designed for the judges, not the fans. I remember for years when it was so exciting to go to DCI finals. You saw 12 great and entertaining shows. It didn't matter if you hated classical music (which is my fav) Regiment would have still knocked your socks off.

Today - meh. I like the Cadets, SCV and Bluecoats this year. That's it. That's up one from last year when I only liked Academy and SCV. So, I guess we are making progress.

[henry7184]

32 minutes ago, Jake W. said:

I'll add another layer, too: using source material that lacks a hummable melody does NOT equate to chop 'n' bop.

 

True, but when you use 9 different pieces as your source material, it is impossible to construct a musical piece that grows and develops or sustains harmony and melody, especially when your horn line is only playing for probably six minutes. Nearly every single show is chop and bop. It's BORING! I was bored to death at Stanford. I would have left after Academy if I didn't want to see SCV so badly. They were worth it. But, I won't go next year. Waste money and time driving and time sitting there... when I can nap at home for free.

Edited June 29, 2017 by henry7184

[Jake W.]

27 minutes ago, mjoakes said:

And "us" is whom? Arrangers, music directors, music professors? I'm a fan of the Scouts show this year, but there's much in DCI that is not at all recognizable to bunches of fans. That includes parents and donors putting up substantial funds, the total of which surely is not on the small side of "most." Please don't assume us away.

Yes, arrangers, those with a music degree, band directors, etc....but please don't forget that the vast majority of kids marching in top notch corps came from terrific band programs as well. I would wager that every high level concert band in the country has attempted Music for Prague at some point within the last 30 years. Also, the high school marching band world is no stranger to Music for Prague & Miraculous Mandarin; both pieces have been used by top level BOA groups for years now (granted, Music for Prague much more so than the Bartok, although Marian Catholic has used both within the last 10 years). You don't have to be a music major or a band director to pick up on distinct musical themes you've heard a couple times throughout your performing-arts-watching tenure, and that includes parents and corps alumni who were never music majors.

[cowtown]

5 hours ago, henry7184 said:

. What would make you happier, a 13-14 old school Madison, crowd favorite, or a bronze medalist corps.

Interesting idea

 

Trying to figure out my least favorite, highest ranking Scouts show to find the disconnect

 

gotta go with 1978, Star Wars into Bee Gees, 4th place

 

what's yours?

[Jake W.]

31 minutes ago, henry7184 said:

Yes. Today shows are designed for the judges, not the fans. I remember for years when it was so exciting to go to DCI finals. You saw 12 great and entertaining shows. It didn't matter if you hated classical music (which is my fav) Regiment would have still knocked your socks off.

Today - meh. I like the Cadets, SCV and Bluecoats this year. That's it. That's up one from last year when I only liked Academy and SCV. So, I guess we are making progress.

I like to think they're designed for both; some certainly lean stronger one way than the other, however. Some years, I think most of the shows were a little too esoteric, judges-catering, and not too rewatchable for pure enjoyment; other years, like 2016, I see the pendulum swinging the other way and the season is chock full of audience friendly shows. Take last year's top 5. *YOU* might not have enjoyed Down Side Up, As Dreams Are Made On, Relentless, Force of Nature, & Propaganda, and I'm sure we can find others to dislike a few shows on this list as well, but I would hope you're not short sighted enough to ignore the overwhelmingly positive response these five shows received all season from crowds, the majority of DCP posters, alumni of those corps, and from high school students (I teach, so maybe I'm a little closer to the perception of future corps members than most). 

And two to three corps is all you enjoyed between this year and last year? I sincerely do not mean to offend, but if that is honestly the case, analyze how open your mind is. Drum corps reaches massive audiences nationwide and many shows last year ended the season with overwhelming support. It was a good season to be a fan. Please consider that the problem could be in your perception and openness, and not with current designs.