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Wow this thread is discouraging. This is my first DCP post but I feel it necessary to post.

Background/knowledge: My kid was a rookie at cadets this year. That same kid didn't want to come home this year because they loved their experience with the cadets this summer.

That same kid had marched other corps at which they had worse experiences.

That same kid never thought they would be a cadet but now knows they don't want to go anywhere else.

As a parent I also volunteered and toured over 20+ days doing various things for the corps. Also have volunteered at 2 other corps where I had children March. I saw and experienced many things with this corps and others.

Note, there are positives and negatives with all the corps. But also note cadets may seem more expensive but there are no hidden costs. It covers everything. Other corps get you by tacking on other fees.

In any event, I have much respect for the cadet organization, including but not limited to the staff (including hop), the administrative staff and especially the members.

This summer was not easy by all means for any of them but hey if things were easy it wouldn't be the same experience now would it? Nor would our kids learn to overcome the challenges presented.

Did they want to place higher, of course they did. Does that mean they failed? HELL NO. There were many good shows this year.

Does it mean the staff sucked or needs replaced? HELL NO.

Lastly, about the guard. Kristy is tough but the work these kids were doing appeared to be more complex and difficult than those guards who scored higher. What makes no sense to me is how when the show did finally stabilize that the achievement scores for the guard went down.

It also makes no sense to me how the corps final score went down at finals when it was clearly the best run they had of the season.

I watched top corps have collisions/falls/many drops in finals but their scores all went up.

The judging system makes no sense to me but I know how the experience was.

In summary, I don't know anything about changes to the staff or organization and clearly the judging system confused the hell out of me but I do know that no matter what happens there were many who actually did have a good experience and it's sad that most people only focus on the negative. This activity is clearly about perception and there are clearly politics involved but it seems to me that even if hop and team did exactly as everyone wished it wouldn't be good enough. They were doomed by many posts on dcp from the get go. I often wander how the negative affected their summer.

I can only hope that many of these rumors are squashed and things get more positive so that we can move on and prepare for a fabulous 2017.

I can admit I have been kinda heated in this thread at the rumors, but reading your post brings back a reminder of why many people march Cadets. Congrats to your son and hope he goes back next year and has an even greater summer.

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(Wow this thread is discouraging. This is my first DCP post but I feel it necessary to post.

Background/knowledge: My kid was a rookie at cadets this year. That same kid didn't want to come home this year because they loved their experience with the cadets this summer.
That same kid had marched other corps at which they had worse experiences.
That same kid never thought they would be a cadet but now knows they don't want to go anywhere else.
As a parent I also volunteered and toured over 20+ days doing various things for the corps. Also have volunteered at 2 other corps where I had children March. I saw and experienced many things with this corps and others.
Note, there are positives and negatives with all the corps. But also note cadets may seem more expensive but there are no hidden costs. It covers everything. Other corps get you by tacking on other fees.

In any event, I have much respect for the cadet organization, including but not limited to the staff (including hop), the administrative staff and especially the members.
This summer was not easy by all means for any of them but hey if things were easy it wouldn't be the same experience now would it? Nor would our kids learn to overcome the challenges presented.
Did they want to place higher, of course they did. Does that mean they failed? HELL NO. There were many good shows this year.
Does it mean the staff sucked or needs replaced? HELL NO.
Lastly, about the guard. Kristy is tough but the work these kids were doing appeared to be more complex and difficult than those guards who scored higher. What makes no sense to me is how when the show did finally stabilize that the achievement scores for the guard went down.
It also makes no sense to me how the corps final score went down at finals when it was clearly the best run they had of the season.
I watched top corps have collisions/falls/many drops in finals but their scores all went up.
The judging system makes no sense to me but I know how the experience was.

In summary, I don't know anything about changes to the staff or organization and clearly the judging system confused the hell out of me but I do know that no matter what happens there were many who actually did have a good experience and it's sad that most people only focus on the negative. This activity is clearly about perception and there are clearly politics involved but it seems to me that even if hop and team did exactly as everyone wished it wouldn't be good enough. They were doomed by many posts on dcp from the get go. I often wander how the negative affected their summer.

I can only hope that many of these rumors are squashed and things get more positive so that we can move on and prepare for a fabulous 2017.)

Thank you for your words. I also find this thread to be disheartening. My son joined the Cadet staff about 3-1/2 weeks before the season ended to clean the brass. I've seen the FB posts and personal messages he received from so many kids and it appears they really enjoyed their experience. Yes, the program went through many~many changes and it was a difficult fast paced show. People kept saying clean~clean~clean and they did, however, time was not on their side nor was the weather. Had they had a complete show earlier I believe the show would have been fantastic. It seems like the Cadets are suffering from fair-weather fans this year. So many on here have said they would buy the music, it was that good. My 2 cents worth.

Sorry, I don't have the copy, quote thing down.

Edited by Tricia-A BD/BK Mom
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Wow this thread is discouraging. This is my first DCP post but I feel it necessary to post.

Background/knowledge: My kid was a rookie at cadets this year. That same kid didn't want to come home this year because they loved their experience with the cadets this summer.

That same kid had marched other corps at which they had worse experiences.

That same kid never thought they would be a cadet but now knows they don't want to go anywhere else.

As a parent I also volunteered and toured over 20+ days doing various things for the corps. Also have volunteered at 2 other corps where I had children March. I saw and experienced many things with this corps and others.

Note, there are positives and negatives with all the corps. But also note cadets may seem more expensive but there are no hidden costs. It covers everything. Other corps get you by tacking on other fees.

In any event, I have much respect for the cadet organization, including but not limited to the staff (including hop), the administrative staff and especially the members.

This summer was not easy by all means for any of them but hey if things were easy it wouldn't be the same experience now would it? Nor would our kids learn to overcome the challenges presented.

Did they want to place higher, of course they did. Does that mean they failed? HELL NO. There were many good shows this year.

Does it mean the staff sucked or needs replaced? HELL NO.

Lastly, about the guard. Kristy is tough but the work these kids were doing appeared to be more complex and difficult than those guards who scored higher. What makes no sense to me is how when the show did finally stabilize that the achievement scores for the guard went down.

It also makes no sense to me how the corps final score went down at finals when it was clearly the best run they had of the season.

I watched top corps have collisions/falls/many drops in finals but their scores all went up.

The judging system makes no sense to me but I know how the experience was.

In summary, I don't know anything about changes to the staff or organization and clearly the judging system confused the hell out of me but I do know that no matter what happens there were many who actually did have a good experience and it's sad that most people only focus on the negative. This activity is clearly about perception and there are clearly politics involved but it seems to me that even if hop and team did exactly as everyone wished it wouldn't be good enough. They were doomed by many posts on dcp from the get go. I often wander how the negative affected their summer.

I can only hope that many of these rumors are squashed and things get more positive so that we can move on and prepare for a fabulous 2017.

Kids did not fail...Many corps would love to have the failure of a 6th place. with that said If you like You can PM me and I can tell you exactly what you want to know as to WHY judges may have seen what they did as far as the guard was concerned. If I do it here the thread will for sure turn into something the thread is not about.

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(Wow this thread is discouraging. This is my first DCP post but I feel it necessary to post.

Background/knowledge: My kid was a rookie at cadets this year. That same kid didn't want to come home this year because they loved their experience with the cadets this summer.

That same kid had marched other corps at which they had worse experiences.

That same kid never thought they would be a cadet but now knows they don't want to go anywhere else.

As a parent I also volunteered and toured over 20+ days doing various things for the corps. Also have volunteered at 2 other corps where I had children March. I saw and experienced many things with this corps and others.

Note, there are positives and negatives with all the corps. But also note cadets may seem more expensive but there are no hidden costs. It covers everything. Other corps get you by tacking on other fees.

In any event, I have much respect for the cadet organization, including but not limited to the staff (including hop), the administrative staff and especially the members.

This summer was not easy by all means for any of them but hey if things were easy it wouldn't be the same experience now would it? Nor would our kids learn to overcome the challenges presented.

Did they want to place higher, of course they did. Does that mean they failed? HELL NO. There were many good shows this year.

Does it mean the staff sucked or needs replaced? HELL NO.

Lastly, about the guard. Kristy is tough but the work these kids were doing appeared to be more complex and difficult than those guards who scored higher. What makes no sense to me is how when the show did finally stabilize that the achievement scores for the guard went down.

It also makes no sense to me how the corps final score went down at finals when it was clearly the best run they had of the season.

I watched top corps have collisions/falls/many drops in finals but their scores all went up.

The judging system makes no sense to me but I know how the experience was.

In summary, I don't know anything about changes to the staff or organization and clearly the judging system confused the hell out of me but I do know that no matter what happens there were many who actually did have a good experience and it's sad that most people only focus on the negative. This activity is clearly about perception and there are clearly politics involved but it seems to me that even if hop and team did exactly as everyone wished it wouldn't be good enough. They were doomed by many posts on dcp from the get go. I often wander how the negative affected their summer.

I can only hope that many of these rumors are squashed and things get more positive so that we can move on and prepare for a fabulous 2017.)

Thank you for your words. I also find this thread to be disheartening. My son joined the Cadets about 3-1/2 weeks before the season ended to help clean. I've seen the FB posts and personal messages he received from so many kids and it appears they really enjoyed their experience. Yes, the program went through many~many changes and it was a difficult fast paced show. People kept saying clean~clean~clean and they did, however, time was not on their side nor was the weather. Had they had a complete show earlier I believe the show would have been fantastic. It seems like the Cadets are suffering from fair-weather fans this year. So many on here have said they would buy the music, it was that good. My 2 cents worth.

Sorry, I don't have the copy, quote thing down.

Edited by GUARDLING
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Kids did not fail...Many corps would love to have the failure of a 6th place. with that said If you like You can PM me and I can tell you exactly what you want to know as to WHY judges may have seen what they did as far as the guard was concerned. If I do it here the thread will for sure turn into something the thread is not about.

I would not mind seeing you do a "just guard" review of finals (in a separate thread). I know I could learn a lot from you and many others as well. I find the guard judging and claims about why "my favorite guard is better than your favorite guard" hard to evaluate. Maybe even more than GE, at least in GE I can relate it to "effectiveness" of the program, and if I don't always understand it, the audience in the stands of non-specialists "get it".

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The times, they are a changin' -- years ago!

The performers are, and have been, ready to view this thing called drum corps "down side up" long ago. They can do all of the things that are rewarded these days. It's time for many organizations, and certainly people -- writers, designers, instructors, directors -- to take to the slide (rhetorically speaking.)

And here is what makes changing times wonderful: there are as many ways to skin this beast as there are organizations who put entertainments on the field. But first, everyone simply has to "let it go," actual histories, shows, approaches, songs, drill sets; all of it. The world of entertainment that the activity exists in is different than back in any of our halcyon days.

Whether the new approach is as ground-breaking as The Bluecoats, or as signature as was the "feel" of Santa Clara, or as spot-on a mash-up of the more adventurous high school marching band world and class drum corps as was The Cavaliers, or as free-wheeling as was the creativity of the Blue Knights, there were new approaches up and down the spectrum.

But for me anyway, what makes drum corps "drum corps," is the level of professionalism that catapults off the field right into my lap, my ears, and my eyes.

All of this begins now, with the annual staff merry-go-round, which is all fine and good, but when you look at the most success over the longest periods of time you see one common staff denominator: consistency.*

*Blue Devils.

This was one terrific season of entertainment and competition. I feel a 2017 unlike anything we have seen in decades! I hope so : )

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(Wow this thread is discouraging. This is my first DCP post but I feel it necessary to post.

Background/knowledge: My kid was a rookie at cadets this year. That same kid didn't want to come home this year because they loved their experience with the cadets this summer.

That same kid had marched other corps at which they had worse experiences.

That same kid never thought they would be a cadet but now knows they don't want to go anywhere else.

As a parent I also volunteered and toured over 20+ days doing various things for the corps. Also have volunteered at 2 other corps where I had children March. I saw and experienced many things with this corps and others.

Note, there are positives and negatives with all the corps. But also note cadets may seem more expensive but there are no hidden costs. It covers everything. Other corps get you by tacking on other fees.

In any event, I have much respect for the cadet organization, including but not limited to the staff (including hop), the administrative staff and especially the members.

This summer was not easy by all means for any of them but hey if things were easy it wouldn't be the same experience now would it? Nor would our kids learn to overcome the challenges presented.

Did they want to place higher, of course they did. Does that mean they failed? HELL NO. There were many good shows this year.

Does it mean the staff sucked or needs replaced? HELL NO.

Lastly, about the guard. Kristy is tough but the work these kids were doing appeared to be more complex and difficult than those guards who scored higher. What makes no sense to me is how when the show did finally stabilize that the achievement scores for the guard went down.

It also makes no sense to me how the corps final score went down at finals when it was clearly the best run they had of the season.

I watched top corps have collisions/falls/many drops in finals but their scores all went up.

The judging system makes no sense to me but I know how the experience was.

In summary, I don't know anything about changes to the staff or organization and clearly the judging system confused the hell out of me but I do know that no matter what happens there were many who actually did have a good experience and it's sad that most people only focus on the negative. This activity is clearly about perception and there are clearly politics involved but it seems to me that even if hop and team did exactly as everyone wished it wouldn't be good enough. They were doomed by many posts on dcp from the get go. I often wander how the negative affected their summer.

I can only hope that many of these rumors are squashed and things get more positive so that we can move on and prepare for a fabulous 2017.)

Thank you for your words. I also find this thread to be disheartening. My son joined the Cadets about 3-1/2 weeks before the season ended to help clean. I've seen the FB posts and personal messages he received from so many kids and it appears they really enjoyed their experience. Yes, the program went through many~many changes and it was a difficult fast paced show. People kept saying clean~clean~clean and they did, however, time was not on their side nor was the weather. Had they had a complete show earlier I believe the show would have been fantastic. It seems like the Cadets are suffering from fair-weather fans this year. So many on here have said they would buy the music, it was that good. My 2 cents worth.

Sorry, I don't have the copy, quote thing down.

You are correct I think BUT will say for all the reasons you said..including weather STAFF and management own this responsibility. If one kid goes on that field unsure OR continually having issues with a skill then if its in a gym, on a field after a performance anywhere. you help that kid and make it right for them. There are many ways to do that even eventually removed from something if need be. This is not just a MMs issue but a staff persons as well. Writing comes into play also. Has one written to challenge BUT achieve? You set up members for success. Was this done? maybe , maybe not they can look at it honestly themselves.

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The judging system makes no sense to me but I know how the experience was.

In summary, I don't know anything about changes to the staff or organization and clearly the judging system confused the hell out of me but I do know that no matter what happens there were many who actually did have a good experience and it's sad that most people only focus on the negative. This activity is clearly about perception and there are clearly politics involved but it seems to me that even if hop and team did exactly as everyone wished it wouldn't be good enough. They were doomed by many posts on dcp from the get go. I often wander how the negative affected their summer.

Well done!

I highlighted the portion of your excellent post that includes some explanation as to how this endeavor can work sometimes. The key word is "perception."

Because this is a performance by humans, judged by humans, perceptions DID play a role in this year's Cadets I am certain. I was very pleased by the Cadets' production this year and enjoyed the adjustments that made everything even better. But, I'm not a judge, just a fan. However, from the very beginning, in June, the stage was firmly set for the Cadets to have a lower ceiling in their scores. Because the Cadets were perceived as being different this season and struggling with their theme. As with all corps, there would be changes, but in this instance, there were to be an excessive number of changes. It was always about "wait until the next show."

The Cadets' talent looked to be as strong as ever and likely worked as hard as any Cadets, but a black cloud (no pun intended) hung over their heads the entire season. To many observers, even including some judges, I believe, Cadets were not going to be as big a factor as most years. They were carrying a heavy weight.

I simply loved the show. The music was wonderful, The performers on the pedestals, etc. first rate. But, there was a stigma of frustration. Through all of this, I think Cadets achieved as much as they possibly could have within the perceptions placed upon them.

The Finals performance was the best I saw from Cadets this season. That's the important goal, really. For me, Cadets did win!

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