oldcadetsop Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Exactly Mr. Fred. Best answer to all the BS going on here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I would not mind seeing you do a "just guard" review of finals (in a separate thread). I know I could learn a lot from you and many others as well. I find the guard judging and claims about why "my favorite guard is better than your favorite guard" hard to evaluate. Maybe even more than GE, at least in GE I can relate it to "effectiveness" of the program, and if I don't always understand it, the audience in the stands of non-specialists "get it". OHHHHH I dont know..lol..At one time I tried to just give an opinion on a few very small issues. Some welcome it some you cant say one thing. Ive been and still am within several sides of this activity BUT that doesnt mean people want to hear it BUT I thank you very much and really do appreciate it. I would spend more time defending my own experiences here than explaining in my opinion a specific issue and I wont defend nor debate my experience. I would love to do a thread sometime with HONEST reviews on guards BUT I dont see that happening..lol Thank you again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamahoNow Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Writing comes into play also. Has one written to challenge BUT achieve? You set up members for success. Was this done? maybe , maybe not they can look at it honestly themselves. The best example this year of this is with the Academy. The show met exactly the abilities of the members. It challenged them, but in a way they could achieve. Almost perfect show for this corps. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Well done! I highlighted the portion of your excellent post that includes some explanation as to how this endeavor can work sometimes. The key word is "perception." Because this is a performance by humans, judged by humans, perceptions DID play a role in this year's Cadets I am certain. I was very pleased by the Cadets' production this year and enjoyed the adjustments that made everything even better. But, I'm not a judge, just a fan. However, from the very beginning, in June, the stage was firmly set for the Cadets to have a lower ceiling in their scores. Because the Cadets were perceived as being different this season and struggling with their theme. As with all corps, there would be changes, but in this instance, there were to be an excessive number of changes. It was always about "wait until the next show." The Cadets' talent looked to be as strong as ever and likely worked as hard as any Cadets, but a black cloud (no pun intended) hung over their heads the entire season. To many observers, even including some judges, I believe, Cadets were not going to be as big a factor as most years. They were carrying a heavy weight. I simply loved the show. The music was wonderful, The performers on the pedestals, etc. first rate. But, there was a stigma of frustration. Through all of this, I think Cadets achieved as much as they possibly could have within the perceptions placed upon them. The Finals performance was the best I saw from Cadets this season. That's the important goal, really. For me, Cadets did win! You are right to a point . Sure anyone, Cadets BD, Crown BC etc etc will be held to a different standard, people will expect more. Its a blessing and a curse to be held to a standard one creates themselves. Everyone in this position knows this and welcomes it I think. You are right Cadets did improve, were they as good as other years ? Maybe Maybe not.The piece you left out was DID the others just improve more, did they manage time and changes better, did they listen or not. You paint a very correct picture, just wasnt complete imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The best example this year of this is with the Academy. The show met exactly the abilities of the members. It challenged them, but in a way they could achieve. Almost perfect show for this corps. Absolutely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 OHHHHH I dont know..lol..At one time I tried to just give an opinion on a few very small issues. Some welcome it some you cant say one thing. Ive been and still am within several sides of this activity BUT that doesnt mean people want to hear it BUT I thank you very much and really do appreciate it. I would spend more time defending my own experiences here than explaining in my opinion a specific issue and I wont defend nor debate my experience. I would love to do a thread sometime with HONEST reviews on guards BUT I dont see that happening..lol Thank you again In case you need more encouragement, I'd love to see it too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candymancan Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Kids did not fail...Many corps would love to have the failure of a 6th place. with that said If you like You can PM me and I can tell you exactly what you want to know as to WHY judges may have seen what they did as far as the guard was concerned. If I do it here the thread will for sure turn into something the thread is not about. Quite honestly I would like to hear it. I am a guard person who has been around a VERY long time and has a pretty great resume with some really big name programs that I am still involved with (not tooting my own horn just trying to explain my experience and knowledge) and I disagree with you on the Cadet guard. I'm interested in where your opinions are coming from. I sat through all three days of every show there and can tell you that in no way shape or form was the Cadet guard valued correctly. Quite honestly neither was the corp (example: no way the Cavie brass is better than Cadet brass). The problem was that the Cadets got caught in the slotting game and once there show was not scoring well by the judging community that was that (not saying the show was great). Now I'm not saying they were a medalist but I am saying that they were DEFINITELY better than the Cavaliers and quite frankly should have been way closer to SCV. But the judges were not going to let that happen. Look at the scores over the last week leading into DCI. All over the place. And please do not say "different panel". There is clear cut criteria to judge by. Yes they may see some things a little differently and yes the corps may perform differently each time but not as ridiculous as the scores showed over just the DCI weekend alone. The Cadets scores were so underrated it's ridiculous. So I am curious as to your thoughts on the Cadet guard since we obviously do not agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine White Russians Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Which I think would be a mistake... In any given year, 85 is the typical score that gets you into finals. They scored and 85 and were pipped by a surging BAC. They had a great show that was instantly indentifiable as a Madison show. It was just bad luck. Wholesale changes or changing for the sake of change would set this group back 5 years at least. I do believe the need to let go of their visual designer. Her's been hit or miss at best since they picked him up several years ago. Watching the high camera from semi-finals, their drill looks dated, it's badly staged, there are places where it's just random scatter drill or running around. In 2015 I thought they had a good drill. Just good, not great. And 2014, it was mostly a disaster. I am surprised they didn't fire him after that debacle. Anyway, they need to get rid of him and also hire some top visual cleaners that know how to get feet clean, and get the overall ensemble visual clean. When's the last time Madison could brag about their marching and visual? Other than that, everything else seems quite fixable without firing anyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 You are right to a point . Sure anyone, Cadets BD, Crown BC etc etc will be held to a different standard, people will expect more. Its a blessing and a curse to be held to a standard one creates themselves. Everyone in this position knows this and welcomes it I think. You are right Cadets did improve, were they as good as other years ? Maybe Maybe not.The piece you left out was DID the others just improve more, did they manage time and changes better, did they listen or not. You paint a very correct picture, just wasnt complete imo Good observation! I don't mean to imply Cadets should have been awarded a First Place score. It all ended about right, numbers-wise. But, as to one critical objective, make your last performance your best performance. . . . they did win! Thanks for helping me clarify. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 In case you need more encouragement, I'd love to see it too. lol..thank u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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