Cadets 2017

[MikeRapp]

1 minute ago, Just Here said:

Music in Motion is supposed to be the beating heart of DCI. I agree that one does not need a literal approach to entertain or be competitive. However, to suggest as you seem to that marching music should not be a driving force in drum corps goes a little too far.

I don't design the sheets. And the sheets do not lie. Nor do this year's placements.

[chaddyt]

6 minutes ago, ForTheCommonGood said:

Waiting for the numbers to reward this corps- they deserve it! Not trying to diminish what the Crusaders are accomplishing, but Cadets have a show far ahead of it's time. The brass score and visual proficiency scores especially confused me last night. I majored in music education and trumpet performance and have been following the activity year round for a long time, and frankly I don't see how BAC, Cavaliers, BK, and PR outscored this hornline. But alas, these are just numbers, and what I witnessed in the theater is probably my favorite drum corps show in long time, maybe my favorite ever (I've been following since 2003). 

Congrats Cadets, keep pushing! 

I'm curious what you feel is ahead of it's time with regards to this show.

[George Dixon]

5 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

I don't design the sheets. And the sheets do not lie. Nor do this year's placements.

hey the placements clearly "are what they are" but it doesn't mean the "best always win" etc

I've been around DCI since their second season as an organization - was very young then

I've seen the RIGHT corps mostly win (only 2 times did I feel the wrong corps won) - however I've also seen some very strange judging when it comes to the corps placing 2nd through last. I don't feel the current system is as effective (with the blended GE 1/2 and more GE, less performance based scoring) than the system used a decade back

But I guess if "effect" is what you value most then this system works ok

[MikeRapp]

Look, I always appreciate and respect commitment to a specific execution, no matter what the art form. I am a creative director by trade, so I know what I am talking about. But if you are going to choose to use scoring as a determining factor of whether your art is achieving its goals, then I would suggest you look at what is working elsewhere and adapt.

Cadets last won the gold with Angels and Demons, which to me is a more advanced version of Boston this year. Since that show, nothing they have tried to do concept wise holds a candle to that show. They just keep daring judges to not respect how fast and loud they play...or how well they can execute purposefully obtuse or on the nose ideas. Judges aren't buying it, and neither are most fans. I would guarantee you that merch sales bare this out in glaring clarity.

Cadets used to be able to medal regardless of show design because they had more talent than almost everyone else. They certainly had more institutional educational depth than any other corps save BD. That just is not the case anymore.

[MikeRapp]

4 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

hey the placements clearly "are what they are" but it doesn't mean the "best always win" etc

I've been around DCI since their second season as an organization - was very young then

I've seen the RIGHT corps mostly win (only 2 times did I feel the wrong corps won) - however I've also seen some very strange judging when it comes to the corps placing 2nd through last. I don't feel the current system is as effective (with the blended GE 1/2 and more GE, less performance based scoring) than the system used a decade back

But I guess if "effect" is what you value most then this system works ok

Effect is absolutely the way dci is going. Blame the corps directors because they went whole hog into the whole dramatic arts/guard direction. Hand motions, bug squishes and scatter drills now very obviously bear more "difficulty" scoring as music in motion.

Edited August 11, 2017 by MikeRapp

[George Dixon]

20 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Well, they were struggling early, and both Boston and Cavaliers were not. It seemed clear at that point where each of those three ranked relative to each other, and since then Cavaliers' guard has really progressed more than really anything else on tour from any corps.

This activity is changing and getting more complex, with more demand. And the top six corps are now doing very big, very complex, very compelling shows. All different, but each very polished. You can get a lot better and still not get ahead of the top six. No doubt Cadets have improved, and the ending is much better. But those improvements held off Blue Knights, otherwise Cadets would be sitting in eighth or even ninth now.

I really don't know how we can feel Cadets will return to medaling contention right now, if show designs continue to be what they have been, which imho are purposefully very literal and on the nose, and "music in motion" driven. There are just a lot more world class organizations that have perfected their direction and are hitting the ground running on day 1. No corps can play catch up all season long and expect to medal anymore.

you and I typically agree

However I personally think there's some bias at play the last couple seasons - especially with specific judges (which I won't go into here)

As far as "literal design" - not sure that's been the case most years with the Cadets - but the recent string have been literal. I also prefer less literal shows and a more subtle design approach

However choosing "Mass" which is a production for the theater doesn't lend itself to that sort of approach

That's why I'm hoping for NO VOICE and a production of OTWF next year. Big brass sound once again and utilize that Tom-taught production caption. A massive non-literal production but use the movie's B&W color scheme (with pops of color) and stay very true to the suite version of the music

Let's say they did a less literal version this year - say the corps was in the middle uniform and took the jacket off for the closer, no voice and no religious symbolism other than some crosses and such in the drill. No pews. No stain glass backdrops. Etc... I'm honestly not sure that would work either in today's DCI. 

[George Dixon]

3 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Effect is absolutely the way dci is going. Blame the corps directors because they went whole hog into the whole dramatic arts/guard direction. Hand motions, bug squishes and scatter drills now very obviously bear more "difficulty" scoring as music in motion.

Yup. I get that. The percussion and brass scoring should still be detached from GE ranking - or guard performance - or "the show" - to a large degree. And it doesn't seem to be. 

[MikeRapp]

2 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

you and I typically agree

However I personally think there's some bias at play the last couple seasons - especially with specific judges (which I won't go into here)

As far as "literal design" - not sure that's been the case most years with the Cadets - but the recent string have been literal. I also prefer less literal shows and a more subtle design approach

However choosing "Mass" which is a production for the theater doesn't lend itself to that sort of approach

That's why I'm hoping for NO VOICE and a production of OTWF next year. Big brass sound once again and utilize that Tom-taught production caption. A massive non-literal production but use the movie's B&W color scheme (with pops of color) and stay very true to the suite version of the music

Let's say they did a less literal version this year - say the corps was in the middle uniform and took the jacket off for the closer, no voice and no religious symbolism other than some crosses and such in the drill. No pews. No stain glass backdrops. Etc... I'm honestly not sure that would work either in today's DCI. 

Mass was a stupid decision for today's drum corps on almost every level. There, I said it.

Do Rent, or Something Rotten. Intentionally choosing a show concept that fundamentally polarized almost everyone due to religious biases and experiences is so stupid that I can't believe it ever even got suggested without someone getting thrown out of the room.

Hopkins is a stubborn person, and stubborn people tend to double down when they get push back. It's a natural reaction in any creative activity. You want to prove that it can be done. We sometimes call this Going Vietnam, when you have so much invested that you can't pull back, and you just keep polishing that turd until it shines like the sun.

[George Dixon]

1 minute ago, MikeRapp said:

Mass was a stupid decision for today's drum corps on almost every level. There, I said it.

Do Rent, or Something Rotten. Intentionally choosing a show concept that fundamentally polarized almost everyone due to religious biases and experiences is so stupid that I can't believe it ever even got suggested without someone getting thrown out of the room.

Hopkins is a stubborn person, and stubborn people tend to double down when they get push back. It's a natural reaction in any creative activity. You want to prove that it can be done. We sometimes call this Going Vietnam, when you have so much invested that you can't pull back, and you just keep polishing that turd until it shines like the sun.

Mass was probably a bad choice - I do agree. The music doesn't lend itself to the "short attention span" generation and the subject matter turns off the far-left artistic types as well as many non-religious young people. Probably most people my age or younger

On The Waterfront is such dramatic music - but not polarizing in the least. 

I assume the Mass got through since they have this 3 year Bernstein gig and they won their first show to it - but never did a whole show from the production. I also think the desire to do costuming etc played into it

Hopkins tends to think "costumes" and "voice" are the waves of the future. I personally disagree.

4 of the top six corps are in "uniforms" (though not "traditional") and the top 2 corps have no voice, while Crown does (and most agree it hurts their production)

I'm interested as a fan where things go from here

Will Hopkins appoint a "Director"? and step back at least somewhat? I personally doubt it

Will most of the staff remain? I'd say yes. I'd expect the same drill guy, the same guard staff, the same arranger, Tom/percussion team, possibly reinforcements on the brass side of things - a new caption head there... THAT did hurt them this year

[MikeRapp]

I assume Mass got through because George was intrigued by the obvious push back that most would have, and felt he could thread the eye of the needle with cheese. Which is what he has almost always done. Choir robes was one thing. But Half naked Jesus? Seriously? I mean just drag the mannequins back out and build a big-### stage across the front. Heck why not add some sixth grade social studies narration, too? I'm sorry but this is Cadets. This is high school level band director decision making, not world class drum corps.

Cadets do not need heavy handed show designers leading them around the field by their respective noses. Give them a great idea and let them out perform everyone. Let the chips fall. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by MikeRapp