Bluecoats 2017 thread - Go Blooooooo!

[cowtown]

2 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

 

The phenomenon that will occur now (although not nearly as bad as happens on the Cadets thread... on occasion) is that criticism will tend to needlessly bubble up concerning elements that were previously considered assets to the design.  It's just a coping mechanism, I suppose.

perhaps

 

But also at this time of year every observation is taken as a wounding criticism by corps beloved fans. Some which, will start attacking their nearest competitors in a seemingly ‘educated’ fashion on DCP. As if their comments can affect scores or at least others’ perceptions of shows in a negative fashion

 

It’s the most wonderful time of the year

[jwillis35]

15 hours ago, pudding said:

BD, SCV, and Crown have superior books in terms of chord tuning and in some cases fingering demands (e.g. Flight of the Bumblebee), but Bluecoats have more demand in terms of ensemble timing and environmental demand, two things that never seem to get the credit they deserve.

I get what you're saying, but I would not use the word "superior." BD, SCV, and Crown have wonderful horn books, but no better than Bluecoats. Crown has tons of demand, but also has music flow issues and music GE issues with the back end of the show. SCV showcases their percussion a lot but they use their brass wisely. To me, only Blue Devils rival Bluecoats from top to bottom brass book construction.

Yes, from a pure playing standpoint Carolina is incredible, as is BD. Bluecoats are catching up with cleaner feet. The talent is there for Bloo. 

As you mentioned above, the timing issues in Bloo's show are very difficult. Just my opinion, but unless Carolina adds an ending that brings that whole show together I feel the back end will suffer just slightly in construction and GE and keep them at 3 or 4. I still think Devils need a little more visual structure to take the title.  To me, SCV and Bluecoats are actually setup the best for grabbing the 1 and 2 positions, but they have to clean and start getting consistent performance caption scores in the top 3. This is what Blue Devils do so well, and that's why even if BD's visual analysis score ends up below SCV and Bloo, BD's guard and marching execution scores will help them win the visual caption. That makes them tough to beat.  If for some reason BD's percussion takes 4th or 5th at Finals, which would also lower music GE to some extent, then the door is open. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by jwillis35

[Bruckner8]

19 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

I get what you're saying, but I would not use the word "superior." BD, SCV, and Crown have wonderful horn books, but no better than Bluecoats. Crown has tons of demand, but also has music flow issues and music GE issues with the back end of the show. SCV showcases their percussion a lot but they use their brass wisely. To me, only Blue Devils rival Bluecoats from top to bottom brass book construction.

Yes, from a pure playing standpoint Carolina is incredible, as is BD. Bluecoats are catching up with cleaner feet. The talent is there for Bloo. 

As you mentioned above, the timing issues in Bloo's show are very difficult. Just my opinion, but unless Carolina adds an ending that brings that whole show together I feel the back end will suffer just slightly in construction and GE and keep them at 3 or 4. I still think Devils need a little more visual structure to take the title.  To me, SCV and Bluecoats are actually setup the best for grabbing the 1 and 2 positions, but they have to clean and start getting consistent performance caption scores in the top 3. This is what Blue Devils do so well, and that's why even if BD's visual analysis score ends up below SCV and Bloo their guard and marching execution scores will help them win the visual caption. That makes them tough to beat.  If for some reason BD's percussion takes 4th or 5th at Finals, which would also lower music GE to some extent, then the door is open. 

Spot on, as usual. Look, BD and the judges have decided that clean is going to be in vogue again in 2017. BD's performance and cleanliness *IS* their GE! 

Cuz their show certainly isn't ground breaking, nor forward-looking in any way! Bloo has timing demand and electronic demand that no one has any clue about. Crown is play notes...very simple, predictable notes. Absolutely nothing special, with very little "small group" exposure. Bloo, BD and to some extent SCV have more exposure. If anything, Crown's overuse of gimmickry is ruining the music. Gianini 3 sounded more impressive when SCV did it in 1983! 

But yea, if Bloo can approach championship levels of clean feet and performance, it will get very interesting. 

[bicsta]

53 minutes ago, Bruckner8 said:

Spot on, as usual. Look, BD and the judges have decided that clean is going to be in vogue again in 2017. BD's performance and cleanliness *IS* their GE! 

Cuz their show certainly isn't ground breaking, nor forward-looking in any way! Bloo has timing demand and electronic demand that no one has any clue about. Crown is play notes...very simple, predictable notes. Absolutely nothing special, with very little "small group" exposure. Bloo, BD and to some extent SCV have more exposure. If anything, Crown's overuse of gimmickry is ruining the music. Gianini 3 sounded more impressive when SCV did it in 1983! 

But yea, if Bloo can approach championship levels of clean feet and performance, it will get very interesting. 

And it's way easier to clean when your drill consists of standing or out-of-time- flutter stepping from set to set.  Those are sets you don't have to spend time on, effectively decreased your performance time.  Simply lack of demand. If judging were honest, the Devs top box would have maxed out last week.

[Forevergreen]

1 hour ago, Bruckner8 said:

Spot on, as usual. Look, BD and the judges have decided that clean is going to be in vogue again in 2017. BD's performance and cleanliness *IS* their GE! 

Cuz their show certainly isn't ground breaking, nor forward-looking in any way! Bloo has timing demand and electronic demand that no one has any clue about. Crown is play notes...very simple, predictable notes. Absolutely nothing special, with very little "small group" exposure. Bloo, BD and to some extent SCV have more exposure. If anything, Crown's overuse of gimmickry is ruining the music. Gianini 3 sounded more impressive when SCV did it in 1983! 

But yea, if Bloo can approach championship levels of clean feet and performance, it will get very interesting. 

Agree so much with this.  Interesting because when I was in high school, our marching band director had a similar philosophy- there were bands that may be doing some more difficult stuff than us, but what we were doing was not easy, but extremely clean. 

[Cappybara]

12 minutes ago, bicsta said:

And it's way easier to clean when your drill consists of standing or out-of-time- flutter stepping from set to set.  Those are sets you don't have to spend time on, effectively decreased your performance time.  Simply lack of demand. If judging were honest, the Devs top box would have maxed out last week.

Here's a post from someone who marched BD last year: 

"I don't know if you've marched but the thing with bd body and choreo is that it's a lot harder than it looks. Its something that becomes apparent when someone marches and they attempt subsets of the stuff that bd does, you really get a good look at the difficulty of BD's shows. It's why BD does movement and choreo that not a lot of other corps do and they do it cleanly. Part of the reason people go to BD is for the learning experience and just getting to know the process of teaching that kind of stuff at a high level and because we have so many vets they can skip all the basic stuff and go into the more difficult body. Its one of those things where "if it's easy then everyone would do it" but they don't. I think one of the coolest things last year was our ballad choreography during the pit break when a judge was absolutely going crazy for our body. We worked on it practically every block and didn't even get it close to right until like a week before finals. It looks like the easiest thing, 76 hornline members doing their own thing but to get 76 members to do something that is so different from each other that resembles the same idea while looking good was the craziest part. Even as a member I thought it looked so simple and easy but it was easily one of the harder moves. This year they're doing a lot of body roll stuff and rocking motions. The body rolls themselves are hard in that they're done slow. you'd think that they're easier but try body rolling. its a lot easier to go fast and uncontrolled. Same with the rocking. I could go on but you get the same idea, all of their stuff is just something you don't think about or appears easy until you try it."

 

here's another short comment from a different 2016 BD member: 

"As for traditional marching and playing at fast tempos, Blue Devils do enough of this to establish that they can do it at a high level. They dont need more than a few minutes of uptempo drill to prove they can execute at championship caliber. This means that they can move onto abstract and strange choreo that requires experience and maturity to be performed by the members"

 

and here's one last one from a diff member:

"You mention the follow the leader and what I'm assuming is aimed at a lot of the curvilinear drill. That's actually one thing I'd be willing to reckon sets BD apart year-to-year in visual captions, to maintain space in such a large and non-geometric context is insanely difficult. It's hard to do a fast box rotation or something of the same vein, but there's a lot more to latch onto to control that form versus a large curve that is either a follow the leader or even a curve that bends and flexes."

 

 

If you think those scatter sets are actual scatter sets and that they don't work on them, you're absolutely crazy. Just as Bloo has lots of hidden musical demand, BD has tons of hidden visual demand

[George Dixon]

BD & Coats have the most demand overall IMO - much more than SCV in my view. Others may disagree

BD is cleaner right now. There's your difference

The corps that arrives in Indy and performs the cleanest each night will likely win this year

[George Dixon]

1 hour ago, jwillis35 said:

I get what you're saying, but I would not use the word "superior." BD, SCV, and Crown have wonderful horn books, but no better than Bluecoats. Crown has tons of demand, but also has music flow issues and music GE issues with the back end of the show. SCV showcases their percussion a lot but they use their brass wisely. To me, only Blue Devils rival Bluecoats from top to bottom brass book construction.

Yes, from a pure playing standpoint Carolina is incredible, as is BD. Bluecoats are catching up with cleaner feet. The talent is there for Bloo. 

As you mentioned above, the timing issues in Bloo's show are very difficult. Just my opinion, but unless Carolina adds an ending that brings that whole show together I feel the back end will suffer just slightly in construction and GE and keep them at 3 or 4. I still think Devils need a little more visual structure to take the title.  To me, SCV and Bluecoats are actually setup the best for grabbing the 1 and 2 positions, but they have to clean and start getting consistent performance caption scores in the top 3. This is what Blue Devils do so well, and that's why even if BD's visual analysis score ends up below SCV and Bloo, BD's guard and marching execution scores will help them win the visual caption. That makes them tough to beat.  If for some reason BD's percussion takes 4th or 5th at Finals, which would also lower music GE to some extent, then the door is open. 

I don't think Crown is on the level of BD & Coats - but they are cleaner than Coats (right now) other than guard. Give it 2 weeks and see where things stand IMO

[jwillis35]

12 minutes ago, Forevergreen said:

Agree so much with this.  Interesting because when I was in high school, our marching band director had a similar philosophy- there were bands that may be doing some more difficult stuff than us, but what we were doing was not easy, but extremely clean. 

Yes. Blue Devils have always been good at finding that tipping point with visual. They never quite give you old Garfield or Cavaliers, but they don't have the easiest visual either. They pull back just slightly, integrate really well, stage impeccably, and then clean the heck out of their show. Clean is impressive. Clean is good. Clean is GE. Maybe it's not stand and cheer wildly GE, but it's GE because all the elements lock in. Judges notice these things.  I liked the whiplash era (AKA run and gun), but by the mid-to-late 90s it hit its' peak and we began to see some really dirty shows at Finals when we should have been looking at clean, polished shows. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by jwillis35

[BoaDci]

10 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Here's a post from someone who marched BD last year: 

"I don't know if you've marched but the thing with bd body and choreo is that it's a lot harder than it looks. Its something that becomes apparent when someone marches and they attempt subsets of the stuff that bd does, you really get a good look at the difficulty of BD's shows. It's why BD does movement and choreo that not a lot of other corps do and they do it cleanly. Part of the reason people go to BD is for the learning experience and just getting to know the process of teaching that kind of stuff at a high level and because we have so many vets they can skip all the basic stuff and go into the more difficult body. Its one of those things where "if it's easy then everyone would do it" but they don't. I think one of the coolest things last year was our ballad choreography during the pit break when a judge was absolutely going crazy for our body. We worked on it practically every block and didn't even get it close to right until like a week before finals. It looks like the easiest thing, 76 hornline members doing their own thing but to get 76 members to do something that is so different from each other that resembles the same idea while looking good was the craziest part. Even as a member I thought it looked so simple and easy but it was easily one of the harder moves. This year they're doing a lot of body roll stuff and rocking motions. The body rolls themselves are hard in that they're done slow. you'd think that they're easier but try body rolling. its a lot easier to go fast and uncontrolled. Same with the rocking. I could go on but you get the same idea, all of their stuff is just something you don't think about or appears easy until you try it."

 

here's another short comment from a different 2016 BD member: 

"As for traditional marching and playing at fast tempos, Blue Devils do enough of this to establish that they can do it at a high level. They dont need more than a few minutes of uptempo drill to prove they can execute at championship caliber. This means that they can move onto abstract and strange choreo that requires experience and maturity to be performed by the members"

 

and here's one last one from a diff member:

"You mention the follow the leader and what I'm assuming is aimed at a lot of the curvilinear drill. That's actually one thing I'd be willing to reckon sets BD apart year-to-year in visual captions, to maintain space in such a large and non-geometric context is insanely difficult. It's hard to do a fast box rotation or something of the same vein, but there's a lot more to latch onto to control that form versus a large curve that is either a follow the leader or even a curve that bends and flexes."

 

 

If you think those scatter sets are actual scatter sets and that they don't work on them, you're absolutely crazy. Just as Bloo has lots of hidden musical demand, BD has tons of hidden visual demand

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