Mycroft Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 8 hours ago, henry7184 said: How so. Massive design issues on the guard that bleed into GE. The guard uses non-standard guard equipment for a big chunk of the show. Work with that equipment that I could learn in 5 minutes and execute it as well as them. That's a HUGE issue IMO. They have got to revamp their guard book in a major way. The guard work with that "non-standard" equipment is actually better, in my opinion, than guard members pushing and rolling props around the field. All of the equipment and it's use shows the various aspects of i / I / eye. Maybe you just don't perceive the messages that equipment and the way it is used is adding to the show. If I recall, you had similar issues with understanding the concept of last year's show, too. I think BK got ripped off because they performed their show much better last night than they did at DATR...and their score didn't reflect the improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forevergreen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 19 minutes ago, Mycroft said: The guard work with that "non-standard" equipment is actually better, in my opinion, than guard members pushing and rolling props around the field. All of the equipment and it's use shows the various aspects of i / I / eye. Maybe you just don't perceive the messages that equipment and the way it is used is adding to the show. If I recall, you had similar issues with understanding the concept of last year's show, too. I think BK got ripped off because they performed their show much better last night than they did at DATR...and their score didn't reflect the improvement. I do agree they performed significantly better than they did at DATR. I do agree that the guard work design wise is not up to par-nonstandard equipment wise included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) nm Edited July 19, 2017 by 2muchcoffeeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mycroft said: The guard work with that "non-standard" equipment is actually better, in my opinion, than guard members pushing and rolling props around the field. All of the equipment and it's use shows the various aspects of i / I / eye. Maybe you just don't perceive the messages that equipment and the way it is used is adding to the show. If I recall, you had similar issues with understanding the concept of last year's show, too. I think BK got ripped off because they performed their show much better last night than they did at DATR...and their score didn't reflect the improvement. The difference is when some of Vanguard's guard is pushing those props around, or BD's guard, the rest of the guard is doing complex guard work, with equipment. Look at BK's guard scores. That bleeds into visual and GE. It's a problem. It's not about understanding their concept or not. I haven't even tried to understand their concept. I don't do research before I attend a show. I have no idea what their concept is, and I don't really care. Do you really think a majority of the audience understand what their concept is? No. I like the show. It's good brass, good drums, good drill, and good guard (when they use equipment). That's all I care about. Hey, despite the guard issues I'm stunned PR was that close to them. I had BK 2+ points out in front of PR, but I'm not a judge. Obviously, those guard judges are seeing what I'm seeing - lack of guardwork in comparison to their competitors. Spinning a disc around isn't that hard. Anyone could do it. Edited July 19, 2017 by henry7184 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadevilina Crown Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, henry7184 said: The difference is when some of Vanguard's guard is pushing those props around, or BD's guard, the rest of the guard is doing complex guard work, with equipment. Look at BK's guard scores. That bleeds into visual and GE. It's a problem. It's not about understanding their concept or not. I haven't even tried to understand their concept. I don't do research before I attend a show. I have no idea what their concept is, and I don't really care. Do you really think a majority of the audience understand what their concept is? No. I like the show. It's good brass, good drums, good drill, and good guard (when they use equipment). That's all I care about. Hey, despite the guard issues I'm stunned PR was that close to them. I had BK 2+ points out in front of PR, but I'm not a judge. Obviously, those guard judges are seeing what I'm seeing - lack of guardwork in comparison to their competitors. Spinning a disc around isn't that hard. Anyone could do it. Like I said in the DATR thread, I would appreciate if they could upgrade their guard design team and staff over the offseason. Possibly the rest of the visual design team as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, henry7184 said: The difference is when some of Vanguard's guard is pushing those props around, or BD's guard, the rest of the guard is doing complex guard work, with equipment. Look at BK's guard scores. That bleeds into visual and GE. It's a problem. It's not about understanding their concept or not. I haven't even tried to understand their concept. I don't do research before I attend a show. I have no idea what their concept is, and I don't really care. Do you really think a majority of the audience understand what their concept is? No. I like the show. It's good brass, good drums, good drill, and good guard (when they use equipment). That's all I care about. Hey, despite the guard issues I'm stunned PR was that close to them. I had BK 2+ points out in front of PR, but I'm not a judge. Obviously, those guard judges are seeing what I'm seeing - lack of guardwork in comparison to their competitors. Spinning a disc around isn't that hard. Anyone could do it. I agree regarding phantom. I saw them the other night and felt Blue Stars should be ahead of them. At the least, very close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, brians said: I agree regarding phantom. I saw them the other night and felt Blue Stars should be ahead of them. At the least, very close And Crossmen. I honestly don't get it, but I'm not a judge. I think BK could challenge Cadets if they get their guard issues sorted out. To those who say they don't have guard issues, please look at the recap from last night. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, henry7184 said: And Crossmen. I honestly don't get it, but I'm not a judge. I think BK could challenge Cadets if they get their guard issues sorted out. To those who say they don't have guard issues, please look at the recap from last night. I don't think it's personnel, or at least only personnel. It is prioritizing storytelling that includes the guard as an Integral part of the performance.you guys will know far better than I whether they have the talent to put a great guard performance on the field, but the guard design including the props are nowhere near world class. Edited July 19, 2017 by MikeRapp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: I don't think it's personnel, or at least only personnel. It is prioritizing storytelling that includes the guard as an Integral part of the performance.you guys will know far better than I whether they have the talent to put a great guard performance on the field, but the garden design including the props are nowhere near world class.you guys will know far better than I whether they have the talent to put a great guard performance on the field, but the garden design including the props are nowhere near world class. Assume you're talking BK. I would also assume they do have the talent. I don't know why they wouldn't. They must be getting feedback from the guard judge on this. They are getting clobbered on the substance mark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimaster Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Was this the first time BK has ever scored higher than The Cadets in Brass? I think it must be. Pretty cool. Edited July 19, 2017 by Minimaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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