xandandl Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) I should have quoted years. With regard to Phantom, I was referring to the original Spartacus programs from '81/'82. I don't think Michael/Greg Cesario were associated with Phantom until '87 although I could be wrong. he did consulting work behind the scenes before moving in for the Swan Lake show. He definitely had the ear of the designers and instructors for both corps for about a decade, even before formal announcements. For awhile his phone was buzzing between Rockford and New Jersey. I was with Garfield then. Edited November 7, 2016 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Yea, you pretty much confirmed my thought, which was pretty much the same as yours. It would be hard to qualify today's judging criteria as anything close to "minimalistic". In fact, "minimalism" has to be programmed in. The default is "maximum-ulous". I think a lot was being programmed in during the early 80's. I think the following is a good example (sorry - I won't even attempt to embed the video as I'll screw it up. https://youtu.be/VAU6J1vGIUA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Be careful about saying "didn't like it". Evaluations are based on how the corps line up against the official judging criteria set up over the years. If the criteria are not defined to reward minimalism, then a corps doing such a show would not score well. Has nothing to do with "liking" the caption being judged. I think you're half right. It has nothing (or not much: some subjectivity is inevitable) with the judge liking or not liking a given element. But it did have to do with the directors, designers, etc. liking that element when they voted for it in the past. At some point, completely subjective decisions were involved. (And I'm not saying that's a bad thing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 On the subject of doing without: Two years ago, during the second day of the Ohio Music Education Association "state finals", I noticed on the website of the vendor OMEA was then using that no video was available to purchase for just one band of the 40+ ensembles who had performed during the previous day. I inquired at their booth: why not? I had been in attendance on that cold, miserable day, and I wondered which piece of music that band played was facing copyright difficulties. Oh no, they said, it was nothing like that. The problem was that for about ten minutes, the strong wind which blew all morning and afternoon got so intense it knocked out the stadium's power--and the video team had no battery back-up. But I had never noticed this problem during the (daytime) performance, because this band was, I believe, the only large group in the state who uses no electronics or amplification. (They still don't.) They just played on, blissfully unaware. Or as blissful as was possible in 36-degree temperatures (not counting wind chill). I often sit close enough to the press box at band shows to hear a smattering of the judges' comments. I've actually overheard judges make suggestions to some bands to add amplification. Had this group received and followed that advice in the past, presumably they would have suffered for it on that day. An extreme situation, to be sure, but those are often the most instructive moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Not that I would want all shows to be minimalist. Yesterday I saw a pretty busy show called "Two Turntables and a Marching Band" that was a very busy mix of classical and hip-hop (no live rapping through, but it did make me think about the idea lately proposed here of a corps playing tunes from Hamilton), which was quite entertaining. I just think that the stripped-down option should be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I think a lot was being programmed in during the early 80's. I think the following is a good example (sorry - I won't even attempt to embed the video as I'll screw it up. https://youtu.be/VAU6J1vGIUA Excellent example you caught there, Mr. Fish. Perfect parallel to the SFA contemporary use of guard/dance team. Just proves if you keep a suit in the closet long enough, it comes back in fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) Excellent example you caught there, Mr. Fish. Perfect parallel to the SFA contemporary use of guard/dance team. Just proves if you keep a suit in the closet long enough, it comes back in fashion. Here's another example from '83. Garfield has just knocked the crowd over with their incredible performance of Rocky Point Holiday. The crowd is screaming "East! East! East!." The next piece they perform is Bernstein's Mass. So much of it is so subtle that the listener is forced to pay close attention to catch as much as they can. No rifles and flags at the beginning of the piece. They used dance, shawls and Chinese lanterns. It was just so well performed. https://youtu.be/lCpKlgo7dBo?t=3m8s Edited November 8, 2016 by Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 I think you're half right. It has nothing (or not much: some subjectivity is inevitable) with the judge liking or not liking a given element. But it did have to do with the directors, designers, etc. liking that element when they voted for it in the past. At some point, completely subjective decisions were involved. (And I'm not saying that's a bad thing.) Sure, those that vote in the criteria do so because they like what they voted for. Of course!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Here's another example from '83. Garfield has just knocked the crowd over with their incredible performance of Rocky Point Holiday. The crowd is screaming "East! East! East!." The next piece they perform is Bernstein's Mass. So much of it is so subtle that the listener is forced to pay close attention to catch as much as they can. No rifles and flags at the beginning of the piece. They used dance, shawls and Chinese lanterns. It was just so well performed. https://youtu.be/lCpKlgo7dBo?t=3m8s Those moments work as they are part of a total show...they serve to highlight different aspects of the judging criteria. Boy, you did pick some of my favorites spots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
year1buick Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 My daughter's band, Ronald Reagan High School (from San Antonio) is traveling to Indy this week-- they don't have any go-carts, but they DO have a front stage. :) It's actually going to be a hectic week for them. They have the first round of state UIL tomorrow, then hopefully Finals the next day, then a flight out to Indy on Thursday. (Lots of planning and packing going on in this household right now...) This has been an interesting thread for me. I've been out of the marching band scene for a LONG time and have always just assumed that the creative flow was a trickle down from drum corps to the high school level but is that still the case? Or was it ever? Interesting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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