Electronics, Costumes, Tarps, and Props...

[C.Holland]

Oh man, can you imagine the Shark chasing the Fat Lady up and down one of Bluecoats' slides?

followed by the Wilhelm scream as the fat lady is eaten!

Actually. I'd be ok with VK or Bridgemen buying up ALL the top 12 props from the year before, and putting them into the current year's show. Presenting their 2017 show "Rummage Sale... DCI is proud to present..."

Edited December 13, 2016 by C.Holland

[garfield]

Actually , wouldnt it? The change or progression to productions, the diversity in content and design, the exploration and tools to produce a program. Could it

possibly be a reason why we still have the activity today? Just posing a question.

Not all the toys are good or done well by some BUT I sure would have loved all of it back in the day when I actually marched. I would love to see ( not possible , I know ) a corps say like old 27th with the bells and whistles of today. Now that would be something to see. jmo

Interesting.

Yes, that would surely be something to see!

[oldbandguy]

and something tells me Garfield is THRILLED to have as much MSG coming to his Dublin show as possible

[Fran Haring]

I'm thinking if you gave the Bridgemen all of the bells and whistles, they'd find ways to make some crazy stuff happen. Or VK.

I wish DCA's Empire Statesmen had access to things like electronics, etc., in their heyday. They'd be right there with Bridgemen and VK on the "crazy stuff" meter. LOL.

Heck... Statesmen actually did use some stuff like that... an electric bass guitar in 1985, to add to their low-end sound (against the rules at the time... 2-point penalty at any DCA show they were at) ... and in 2001, their one-minute "pre-show" warmup featured a live voiceover by Bob Scott, longtime Statesmen member/staffer and radio announcer in the Rochester area.

Bob used the stadium PA systems for the announcement from his spot on the field... at various shows he used his own wireless mike patched into the stadium system through a portable mixing board. I had the privilege of being his board op at championships that year. LOL.

That DCA pre-show format, dating back at least to the 1980s... was interesting, and IMO, ahead of its time. Corps were allowed to use pretty much anything they wanted... electronics, alternative instruments, whatever.... for that one minute before the judged portion of their shows. Several corps opted to use that "moving warmup"... others did the backfield warmup which was standard for that era.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Fran Haring

[Triple Forte]

"...to provide a life changing experience for youth through the art of marching music performance."

​I've always been a believer of less is more in drum corps...but as far as my personal belief...I don't think my belief applies when it comes to viewing drum corps as an "art" form...

I haven't been critical in a while so I'll chime in a bit....

I am of the belief that 'Less is Definitely More' in drum corps. I absolutely hate the fact that most corps have full time synth players, use mic's for solos (a lot of times the exact same reverb effect) and many other elements that are there for the sake of being there. Does every show call for all these elements? I would say no. It's the overuse and abuse that bothers me the most. Especially the 'Bass synth' note at the end of musical phrases, songs and shows. So unmusical and unneeded (And out of balance most often).

where in this mission statement do corps see the need to use all kinds of non-traditional drum corps musical elements to meet the goals of the mission statement?

"...to provide a life changing experience for youth through the art of marching music performance."

ok...I feel better now....... :)

[Jeff Ream]

I don't always agree with Garfield, but I'll agree with this one any day of the week.

A lot of cakes have frosting, but not all. Frosting can complement the cake (these flavors work awesome together, neither would work without the other), it can just add a little something (the frosting's good, but I could take it or leave it), or it can make no sense (this cake is delicious but the frosting is meh, I'm not sure why they felt the need to add frosting). Regardless of which method a baker decides to go with, it's important to remember that I'm in the market for cake, because I love cake. If ever comes a time I'm handed just a bucket of frosting, even if it's the best frosting in the world, it's never going to be called a cake.

On that note, in a world of cakes covered in frosting, I'd love to see a baker come out of the box with the best cake anyone's ever seen, sans frosting, and blow everyone's minds.

(no, I'm not actually talking about cakes)

as drum corps has shown many times, frosting comes and goes in terms of how much is applied, and the same will be seen here. Blue changed the game in 14 in terms of how electronics can be used, and keep tweaking it, and others dabble, some well, not some well. But I don't feel it's reached overkill. let's be honest, last year the biggest mid show cheer was produced simply by winking into a camera.

[Jeff Ream]

I wish DCA's Empire Statesmen had access to things like electronics, etc., in their heyday. They'd be right there with Bridgemen and VK on the "crazy stuff" meter. LOL.

Heck... Statesmen actually did use some stuff like that... an electric bass guitar in 1985, to add to their low-end sound (against the rules at the time... 2-point penalty at any DCA show they were at) ... and in 2001, their one-minute "pre-show" warmup featured a live voiceover by Bob Scott, longtime Statesmen member/staffer and radio announcer in the Rochester area.

Bob used the stadium PA systems for the announcement from his spot on the field... at various shows he used his own wireless mike patched into the stadium system through a portable mixing board. I had the privilege of being his board op at championships that year. LOL.

That DCA pre-show format, dating back at least to the 1980s... was interesting, and IMO, ahead of its time. Corps were allowed to use pretty much anything they wanted... electronics, alternative instruments, whatever.... for that one minute before the judged portion of their shows. Several corps opted to use that "moving warmup"... others did the backfield warmup which was standard for that era.

A side note to all this... this past season, Bob and I had a chance to work together without being in the same place...LOL... we both recorded some audio used by my old team, DCA's Long Island Sunrisers. I did the corps' intro announcements, Bob did some in-show narration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE6XzqPs_EM&list=PLta_9itNwei6PGarIhX3cMd7zq8nu_3dc&index=24

had the chance to see that done live week in and week out. crowds ate it up week in and week out...in DCA no less

Edited December 14, 2016 by Jeff Ream

[mjoakes]

...

You can take any kind of show concept and design it well or design it poorly. I'm also taking for granted that the judges reward shows that are designed well and performed well, and know better than most of us what constitutes a good show.

There is nothing wrong with with the idea itself of adding props in a show - props can be done poorly, or they can be done well. You can't just make a blanket statement that says "all props are bad" and expect it to be the truth. The Blue Stars, for example, are known for their use of props. Most of the time they are done very well. Sometimes they aren't - I think the Side Show show was probably a poor use of props - not that the idea wasn't good - it was just not well integrated. Their Houdini show, the props were done VERY well. Very well integrated in the show.

Sometimes The Cadets use props poorly. Sometimes the Blue Devils use them poorly. The white colored minimalist type poles they've used 2010-2013, some years they were used well, the Re-Rite of Spring I think they were poorly used.

It's not the props, or the electronics, or woodwinds or strings or WHATEVER is used, that makes a show good or bad, it's how they are used.

...

A good point here from BoyWonder1911. For me, the props can be annoying, but if I think better about this it isn't because I oppose props. Rather, it's because some props really are not done well. In the context above, it means, I guess, the overall design, including the props, is not done well.

And "done well" is subjective. The reaction of the audience overall matters to me and usually prompts me to think again if I discover I don't agree with it. Regardless, this is all quite subjective and preference-oriented. I thought the props in the Cadets and Blue Stars 2016 shows were silly and distracting. But plenty of people seemed to like those shows. (Same for Blue Stars 2015 show, those really cheesy-looking circus props that I didn't think added anything of value. Or how about the 2015 Scouts guys dancing with those silhouettes? To me in the seats, that was creepy. Others must have been fine with it.)

I was happy that Crown and SCV scored well with great shows that were not prop-messy. Yes, the stagecoach was a major, dominating prop, but overall, the field was free for attention to great drill and music. Same for SCV. So I am not convinced that all designers are compelled to throw junk on the field in order to please the audience or be competitive.

[cixelsyd]

Look, drum corps is all about entertainment. And like all things, especially entertainment, it must change and evolve in order to survive.

No, that is not true of "all things", and certainly not entertainment.

This is becoming a pet peeve of mine. Darwin must be rolling in his grave over how his theory gets distorted into absolutism such as "evolve or die", or "survival of the fittest". Natural selection is a theory of evolution, not extinction. Advantageous changes increase the relative population of the evolved species, but do not completely erase other populations.

More importantly, the idea of natural selection applies to biology and life itself, not the artificial constructs of our individual and societal tastes for leisure time activities. The fact that bagpipes are still played today, and people voluntarily choose to listen to them, is enough proof that "evolution" is not required for "survival" in the context of arts and entertainment.

I'm not saying ALL change is good.

Thanks for that clarification.

But the changes in drum corps shows open up new ideas, new ways of doing things, new creative concepts - the Bluecoats' show this past season would not have happened 20 years ago.

Funny. To me, the show they most remind me of did take place over 20 years ago (94 BD).

Now what concerns me, and I think this may be what the OP was trying to get at, is that usage of electronics are replacing talent and education.

I get that.

I am with you.

I don't like it either - but do you think that the judges can see through that? Do you think that the added microphones allow judges to better hear and pick up on flaws?

Not really. Do they enhance your ability to hear X, or do they cover up Y? That is a tradeoff.

What amplification really does is increase the difference between the press box experience and that of the audience in closer proximity. Modern ensembles have more performers, and more recently legalized instruments layered on top of each other. This increased density drives some press box judges to request amplification of a number of selected instruments so that they can be heard way up top. Meanwhile, down below, eardrums are pierced by nearby speakers.

But I completely understand the notion that usage of electronics could be seen as cheating. Like lip syncing a show instead of singing it, or like for example, Miley Cyrus, WE know she isn't that good of a singer, the recording studio knows she isn't a good singer, so they have to synthesize her voice to make it sound better. Maybe that's a rude example, sorry, but it's true. I hope this doesn't happen with drum corps. Because the point of DCI is education. Not trying to do a chop job just to get points or accolades.

I really hope DCI org isn't purposefully pushing electronic cheating for the sake of keeping them afloat.

DCI edits solo flubs out of their competition recordings. They were the role model for electronic cheating decades before the corps had electronics on the field.

I would also really like to see if a show can still medal without any use of electronics or microphones.

We will never find out. You would sooner see a corps medal with no drumline.

[Fran Haring]

A side note to all this... this past season, Bob and I had a chance to work together without being in the same place...LOL... we both recorded some audio used by my old team, DCA's Long Island Sunrisers. I did the corps' intro announcements, Bob did some in-show narration.

I like this pre-recording stuff quite a bit.

Someday, it might give me a chance to be at shows without actually traveling to them. My car's odometer will thank me. LOL.