garfield Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, cybersnyder said: So it would have been better if they didn’t say why? In fact, yes. What was the point when they could have said "No" a dozen different ways that didn't insult the athleticism of the MM's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, garfield said: Don't be. "...bring down..." probably overstates it. "Enthusiastically encouraging and quietly cheering" is probably more accurate. I call it gutter level and low rent, bordering on bottom-feeding. (Trying not to go full Jersey Guy and get banned from here for life. LOL ) Way, way beneath your usual snappy, breezy, usually informed, occasionally snarky, repartee. Openly rooting for a company's demise... in particular a company that is doing what it can to prop up a troubled urban area... because they didn't give the answer you wanted to hear. Pathetic. Man... I thought I was bad with my "hatred" for Notre Dame's football team. LOL. As much as I don't like them, I am not rooting for their demise, at all. Just two or three losses per season. Maybe the justifiable reason Under Armour used was that their data indicated that drum corps was not worth their investment. They rely a lot, maybe too much at times, on data. I don't know that for sure. Perhaps dozens of other companies have reached that same conclusion, but they just haven't used "hurtful" language. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fran Haring said: I call it gutter level and low rent, bordering on bottom-feeding. (Trying not to go full Jersey Guy and get banned from here for life. LOL ) Way, way beneath your usual snappy, breezy, usually informed, occasionally snarky, repartee. Openly rooting for a company's demise... in particular a company that is doing what it can to prop up a troubled urban area... because they didn't give the answer you wanted to hear. Pathetic. Man... I thought I was bad with my "hatred" for Notre Dame's football team. LOL. As much as I don't like them, I am not rooting for their demise, at all. Just two or three losses per season. Maybe the justifiable reason Under Armour used was that their data indicated that drum corps was not worth their investment. They rely a lot, maybe too much at times, on data. I don't know that for sure. Perhaps dozens of other companies have reached that same conclusion, but they just haven't used "hurtful" language. LOL. Go ahead! Be the Jersey Guy! I really liked the "usually informed" part. And snarky. I like snarky. You keep saying "demise", not me. I just want them down off of their high-horse of institutional arrogance (their stock price has helped that). It's not because of their answer, Fran. I thought I made that clear. Heck, I doubt DCI's appeal to them was very attractive, or meaningful, at all to them! You're right, of course, that they had data. Lots of data to support their notion that band kids aren't athletes. Heck, even people who bowl or shoot pool are called athletes! And what happened to the sensitive-natured snowflake attitude that defends poor, innocent people from bullies like the corporate giants such at UA who pay peanuts to cheap Chinese labor instead of living wages to Americans just so they can sell their wares at inflated prices to those very Americans, get enormous tax breaks for location only to then dribble out a few shekels to the taxpayers footing the bill while being named a "Good Citizen to the Community"? You defend the company (if not its balance sheet) and I'll throw tomatoes at how they insult the couple-million band kids and how they account for revenue on their income statement. Maybe the fall will teach them some humility. (Psst... they could have said "The band market is not big enough for us" instead of kicking the kids on the way out of the presentation.) Can I be a Jersey Guy from corn country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, garfield said: Under Armour gets singled out because, unlike the dozens of other companies solicited, they were the only one who came right out and said, effectively, Yea, we're looking for athletes, not band kids. Why is it acceptable among band people to constantly turn the other cheek as the jocks poke and poke and ridicule and disadvantage, just because they can and for no justifiable reason? Ok, maybe I give too much credit to the athleticism of "band kids". I'll admit to that contention any day. It is confirmed from several sources this is basically what UA said too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 44 minutes ago, garfield said: Go ahead! Be the Jersey Guy! I really liked the "usually informed" part. And snarky. I like snarky. You keep saying "demise", not me. I just want them down off of their high-horse of institutional arrogance (their stock price has helped that). It's not because of their answer, Fran. I thought I made that clear. Heck, I doubt DCI's appeal to them was very attractive, or meaningful, at all to them! You're right, of course, that they had data. Lots of data to support their notion that band kids aren't athletes. Heck, even people who bowl or shoot pool are called athletes! And what happened to the sensitive-natured snowflake attitude that defends poor, innocent people from bullies like the corporate giants such at UA who pay peanuts to cheap Chinese labor instead of living wages to Americans just so they can sell their wares at inflated prices to those very Americans, get enormous tax breaks for location only to then dribble out a few shekels to the taxpayers footing the bill while being named a "Good Citizen to the Community"? You defend the company (if not its balance sheet) and I'll throw tomatoes at how they insult the couple-million band kids and how they account for revenue on their income statement. Maybe the fall will teach them some humility. (Psst... they could have said "The band market is not big enough for us" instead of kicking the kids on the way out of the presentation.) Can I be a Jersey Guy from corn country? ######## have no specific geographic location 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 OK... since I have no clue on the multi-quote function and it's taking time away from my college football viewing....... I figured I'd just paste this in and bold G, and not me. LOL. Go ahead! Be the Jersey Guy! I really liked the "usually informed" part. And snarky. I like snarky. I'll never go "Jersey Guy" in a public forum like this. Not worth it. Not my style. The folks who know me, know that. You keep saying "demise", not me. I just want them down off of their high-horse of institutional arrogance (their stock price has helped that). I thought "Enthusiastically encouraging and quietly cheering" was a pretty good indication that you want the company to fail. Thus, their demise. You want to parse words/phrases/intent, have at it. And what happened to the sensitive-natured snowflake attitude that defends poor, innocent people from bullies like the corporate giants such at UA who pay peanuts to cheap Chinese labor instead of living wages to Americans just so they can sell their wares at inflated prices to those very Americans, get enormous tax breaks for location only to then dribble out a few shekels to the taxpayers footing the bill while being named a "Good Citizen to the Community"? Not sure what set you off in that direction... but you've just described a chunk of corporate America, I would think. LOL. I would hope you save some of that vitriol for Nike and pretty much any other athletic apparel maker, should they answer DCI's call. (Psst... they could have said "The band market is not big enough for us" instead of kicking the kids on the way out of the presentation.) No need to whisper. We're not in church. Again, it's your description of "marching members as athletes." (I agree, by the way. They sure as heck are athletes in my view. No way could I ever keep up with today''s physical demands in drum corps.) But I'm not sure that's a description shared by the general public. So I can't really blame anyone for thinking that the MMs aren't, or saying that they aren't. Can I be a Jersey Guy from corn country? Nope. No chance, my friend. You didn't grow up around Irish folks from Bayonne... it was like being in a Damon Runyon novel. You're no good at it. Hey... my girlfriend lives in Amish country in PA... AKA corn country. I like corn country. LOL. If we ever get out to OH to visit my newly-relocated cousin or for a Bobcats football game, we should have a beverage sometime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Fran Haring said: (Psst... they could have said "The band market is not big enough for us" instead of kicking the kids on the way out of the presentation.) No need to whisper. We're not in church. Again, it's your description of "marching members as athletes." (I agree, by the way. They sure as heck are athletes in my view. No way could I ever keep up with today''s physical demands in drum corps.) But I'm not sure that's a description shared by the general public. So I can't really blame anyone for thinking that the MMs aren't, or saying that they aren't. OK, you go ahead and acquiesce when UA casts aspersions on an entire group of people, and hold back your blame while the accused are heard demonstrating their bias through their corporate microphones. In today's world it's perfectly acceptable for a "woke" society to defend the character and honor of people who choose to be something out of the mainstream. We see it every, single day. And yet, years of not-subtle characterizations of kids who study music are passed off as acceptable and un-addressable normal faults in otherwise "normal" people. Give me a break. EDIT: My target here is not Fran. One You either defends music kids or you don't one doesn't. UA's money and community "service" are not supposed to weigh on your one's defense but, apparently, they do in your world obviously, they do in many people's world. Otherwise it wouldn't be considered mainstream to crap on band kids and music programs in general. I wonder the pushback if UA had said No because the gay concentration in band is too high and doesn't represent their prime customer base of strong, macho athletes. Or because there are too many liberals in music and they don't want to upset their conservative customers by diluting their brand. It's not you, personally Fran, that I rail against in this case. It's the lack of consistency in the defense of those perceived as somehow "less" than, as you put it, "general society" and UA promotes that notion against a group of, mostly, kids while they get a pass because they're good corporate-citizens. My defense has been consistent since I was on the receiving end of it 45 years ago. I don't blame The Limited, Wendy's, Nationwide, Cardinal Health, or the myriad of others corporations who saw no particular value in providing support in my locale. But not a one of them made an accusation that was, at best, unfounded in the research and, at worst, mean as they politely showed us out. UA is the only one I know of. They, and that attitude, have earned my disdain. "You can change the stripes on a zebra from vertical to horizontal and it's still a zebra." Edited November 6, 2019 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 This thread is ####### nuts. One of the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 I thought we had settled this a long time ago: doing marching band is not athletics. Now if a band kid also plays football or soccer etc. then they are an athlete while doing that sport. You bet. But band and drum corps (sorry for being redundant here) are not sports, and the participants are not athletes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, FTNK said: This thread is ####### nuts. One of the best! Not sure why you say that or, frankly, what you mean but, ok, thanks? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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