ouooga Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, tesmusic said: I'd love to see where that's been a concern or thought that corps staff, admins, and members have had. If that were a concern, DCI would not have gone to DM only retreats in the first place. Officially, I have no actual evidence to back it up. But, I do know the original intention for mixing up corps performance order and also eliminating full retreat was to get corps back on the road faster. Those things did take place and corps still didn't get back on the road, which I think we've all seen first hand. If DCI asked a handful of those corps why they weren't on the road yet, and they responded "we're waiting for our DMs" or "we're waiting to hear scores" then you have your answer. That doesn't seem like a ludicrous scenario, which is immediately how I pictured it all playing out and leading to this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, ouooga said: Officially, I have no actual evidence to back it up. But, I do know the original intention for mixing up corps performance order and also eliminating full retreat was to get corps back on the road faster. Those things did take place and corps still didn't get back on the road, which I think we've all seen first hand. If DCI asked a handful of those corps why they weren't on the road yet, and they responded "we're waiting for our DMs" or "we're waiting to hear scores" then you have your answer. That doesn't seem like a ludicrous scenario, which is immediately how I pictured it all playing out and leading to this decision. Interesting, but that's not how it happened. First, the random mixing up of corps performances if pretty much only at TOC shows. Virtually all others are based on class, with open class going on first and world class going on later, with some exceptions. Second, full retreats were to get corps on the road faster, that is true. However... Third, DCI does not get involved in tour logistics to the point of asking corps why they're not on the road, because that is simply not a concern, and I can assure you you're not going to find an actual time when a corps was asked the question your assuming and where they received that response. You're speculating on things in a way that is simply trying to prove a point that actually has no base. You do refer to how you see it playing out, but it's pure fantasy and not close to how these rules have been made or changed, with the only exception being the point about no full retreats. Beyond that, it just doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Liahona said: I'm not even sure whether anyone actually cares anymore? Is this a big deal to you or no? Nah... no big deal to me. Maybe they could have kept this for the Regionals.. the big shows, if you will, but I'm usually in the parking lot after the last Corps performance at the smaller, local shows anyway. I like to get on the road quickly.. get the scores on my cell on the road home. I suppose if I can get on the road quickly, can't see why the Corps, including the DM's can't as well. Edited March 7, 2017 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Am I the only one that is still waiting to hear an announcement before I actually think it's happening? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, tesmusic said: Interesting, but that's not how it happened. First, the random mixing up of corps performances if pretty much only at TOC shows. Virtually all others are based on class, with open class going on first and world class going on later, with some exceptions. Second, full retreats were to get corps on the road faster, that is true. However... Third, DCI does not get involved in tour logistics to the point of asking corps why they're not on the road, because that is simply not a concern, and I can assure you you're not going to find an actual time when a corps was asked the question your assuming and where they received that response. You're speculating on things in a way that is simply trying to prove a point that actually has no base. You do refer to how you see it playing out, but it's pure fantasy and not close to how these rules have been made or changed, with the only exception being the point about no full retreats. Beyond that, it just doesn't make sense. The performance order definitely was part of getting corps back on the road faster, and definitely didn't take place at just TOC shows. That was a big thing when I marched. The math was presented at a DCI board meeting I believe that Blue Devils ended up with something like two extra days of rehearsal by the end of the season compared to Pioneer due to extra rehearsal time warranted for arriving at/performing at a show later. So within the classes they mixed up performance order to balance that out. This was back in the D1/D2 days, so obviously a while ago, but this was definitely a sticking point. No clue on the rest, you're probably right. I'm making a lot of assumptions, I agree. Definitely seems like something DCI should have a hand in though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 minute ago, ouooga said: The performance order definitely was part of getting corps back on the road faster, and definitely didn't take place at just TOC shows. That was a big thing when I marched. The math was presented at a DCI board meeting I believe that Blue Devils ended up with something like two extra days of rehearsal by the end of the season compared to Pioneer due to extra rehearsal time warranted for arriving at/performing at a show later. So within the classes they mixed up performance order to balance that out. This was back in the D1/D2 days, so obviously a while ago, but this was definitely a sticking point. No clue on the rest, you're probably right. I'm making a lot of assumptions, I agree. Definitely seems like something DCI should have a hand in though. BD has extra days, because they have less shows, because they are on the west coast. Pioneer even CHOOSES to take days off during the season, usually mid/late July to rehearse, as well. Take a look at show schedules, do you see many, if any cases where Pioneer is going on later than corps that are multiple points ahead of them, like say, BD? I'm sure the math was pointed out, but that didn't cause a change, just look at schedules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Just now, tesmusic said: BD has extra days, because they have less shows, because they are on the west coast. Pioneer even CHOOSES to take days off during the season, usually mid/late July to rehearse, as well. Take a look at show schedules, do you see many, if any cases where Pioneer is going on later than corps that are multiple points ahead of them, like say, BD? I'm sure the math was pointed out, but that didn't cause a change, just look at schedules. I didn't perform with a TOC corps, and I didn't perform at TOC shows. I did perform on occasion after Cadets, Cavaliers, Vanguard, and Blue Devils. And when explained why this was, staff explained it was due to the exact scenario I presented. This was 04 and 05 for reference. I realize things have reverted back, but that doesn't change that it did happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, ouooga said: I didn't perform with a TOC corps, and I didn't perform at TOC shows. I did perform on occasion after Cadets, Cavaliers, Vanguard, and Blue Devils. And when explained why this was, staff explained it was due to the exact scenario I presented. This was 04 and 05 for reference. I realize things have reverted back, but that doesn't change that it did happen. Who were you marching with? Where were the performances? Were the shows local to the corps you were in? Were they your home shows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Just now, tesmusic said: Who were you marching with? Where were the performances? Were the shows local to the corps you were in? Were they your home shows? I was a Blue Knight in 05. Don't remember all the shows, but definitely Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh maybe), Arkansas, somewhere in Texas, and either Mississippi or Louisiana. I remember in Pennsylvania wondering if the crowd was going to be less interested in us since we were following Cadets, I remember somewhere finding out that Pioneer was closing the show and wondering if the crowd was going to stay for them, and I remember waiting for Phantom to finish their show (I believe that was Texas) so we could go on and being visibly wowed by that American in Paris show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Growing up, major shows such as CYO Nationals, World Ooen, Etc, had full retreats. Circuit shows, with the exception of finals, just had the drum majors. From the mid 1980's on, it seemed that we saw just drum majors only, and a retreat was an exception. When Boston Crusaders hosted the first CYO Nstionals Tribute in 2011, there was a full retreat. Personally I enjoy the retreats but I also enjoy encores with just the drum majors. My guess is that in the Northeast, Midwest, and perhaps California where there is more of a tradition of drum corps, fans would feel slighted if no drum majors were present when scores are announced. Younger fans and newer audiences probably would not care as much. If I remember correctly, when I went to Atlanta in 2014, scores were announced without DM's. In this area, I would say what the audience prefers should be taken into account. If the audience wants it, provide it. Remember people buy tickets, probably paid for parking, purchase programs, buy food, 50/50 raffle tickets, and souvenirs. For many it is a form of appreciation and a nod to tradition. If the audience wants to go home, don't bother with it. However, whether it's a full retreat or drum majors only, announce the scores before they are online. I find it annoying when I am waiting for scores and they are posted online earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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