George Dixon Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 what's funny is the "biggest offenders" don't need it and the ones that do "need it" aren't doing it as much it's really quite interesting IMHO personally feel - yes - their should be limits placed on this 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSU GRAD 82 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Fred Windish said: Lifetime Pennsylvanian here. Have attended several SEC games in person, especially in Tuscaloosa. Haven't done Tiger Stadium yet . . . I'm afraid to be doused with beer and beaten up! But, back on topic - we ARE seeing too many changes, coming too fast, in drum corps. Much of it positive. The micing expansion thing is very concerning, however. Ok, I thought you were a former MDB/ UA Alum. Most SEC visitors have a better time at an LSU game than any other. Just don't be a drunken fool and run your mouth. That's when trouble starts. Visitors get fed and watered if they're nice. BTW, I'm militant "Old School" Drum & BUGLE Corps. Just haven't enjoyed the "Activity" overall since about 2000. (Except for a few individual Corps shows) They have been few and far between. (Cavies- 007/Frameworks/Machine/4 Corners, Blue Devils- Godfather Part Blue, Cadets 2000, Crown- Bohemian Rhapsody/Rock Star) Don't like the B Flat "Marching Band" Brass, the too "High and Tight" Bass Drums, the Synths, the Amps, the Wretched Excess Pits, the Vocals, the Props, the Dancing/Prancing Guards, the Music selections and the themed story telling. It just be Marching Musical Broadway Theater-Symphony-Opera-Ballet performed on a football field. It aint be Drum Corps! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2kidsindrumcorpsnomoney4me Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I went to all three SoCal shows, and BK was by far the loudest unamplified corps at Oceanside. In the Rose Bowl and at Riverside, another corps which will remain nameless "turned the volume up to 11." I must admit, it is disappointing when you hear something cool in the brass, and you turn to look to see where it is coming from, and you see a speaker. Get rid of the 5//7/9 mics across the field. Mic soloists, mic small ensembles up to 8 - that is about 10% of the brass line in any corps...any number greater than that should be able to hold their own. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar1974 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I find it concerning because I believe the biggest "hook" drum corps has is the amazing sound and power of acoustic brass- pure human power (well, for the most part still...) I am surprised nobody seems to mention much about SCV and the fact they have an ensemble mic'd wirelessly for the whole show, fading them in and out to support the horn line- especially during technical licks. To me this is a huge can of worms- if it catches on we could quickly see a few horns speaking for the entire line- it seems SCV has figured out how to do this pretty seamlessly. The question then becomes when is it too much? Will people care if the amazing horn line they are hearing is really just a dozen players doing the lions share of the work with amp support and clever arranging to mask it and make it appear the entire line is contributing? Seems phony to me, but nobody seems to mention it. To me it diminishes the art and purity of it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defeldus2 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 The gooey synth bass is ten times more offensive to my ears. Who's mic-ing full brass anyways? From streams you can't really tell what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream Theater Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 Thanks everyone for their response and their opinions. I hope this discussion continues as I truly believe it's even bigger than the G to Bb issue that we have discussed to death about. I do really hope everyone can please keep non-topics out of the discussion to really show not only our forum, but possibly DCI how serious we take this and it's more than evolution. If they can provide help and understanding as to why it is and why it will revolutionize DCI...I am all ears and with an open heart. I still believe with out the people that love the community, there is no DCI. It's why DCA despite its smaller following has endured. Please continue to support and talk about this. If any of you know corps directors or staff or DCI executives that could have input or provide a different perspective...please invite them to participate. Thanks again everyone for all the input and perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar1974 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, defeldus2 said: The gooey synth bass is ten times more offensive to my ears. Who's mic-ing full brass anyways? From streams you can't really tell what's going on. At the show I recently attended I was surprised how much brass was coming through the PA- and not just the infamous "goo", I'm talking whole horn line. I was sitting on about the 40 where most corps set their speakers and it was very obvious. Again, I find the mic'ing of imbedded players in the line and then fading up/down to allow them to cut through the mix during key times the biggest potential game changer looming. As far as mic'ing the whole line, I just feel it takes away from the awe of it all. Blowing the stands down with amps and speakers isn't impressive. Crappy rock bands have been doing this for years... The hornlines this year are amazing- amps and effects just put a fake/generic sheen on it all. And this is from a professional guitar player who relies on amps for my livelihood haha... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdValvesAreForWimps Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 We retired the G bugles. That's water under the bridge. Do the Bb/F brass lines sound better? Yes, without a doubt. Are they as loud? No. So what did DCI do? Allowed more players on the field. Now the brass lines are louder. Now DCI comes along with electronics, prerecorded stuff, and live vocals. Let's increase membership to 150 or more including more horns. Now the brass lines themselves need to be amplified, not just soloists. In my day the best sound won. Now the best sound man wins. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifer Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 16 hours ago, wilme861 said: I instantly thought of 02 cavaliers with this in Indy. When they turned around and were louder than they were just playing towards the audience. It was totally unexpected and a great effect. If I remember right on the tapes the GE judges LOVED it. I don't think Bluecoats should be using the mics for it but it's still a cool effect anyways. I feel the total opposite about how Bluecoats are using mics in their ballad. I was actually disgusted when I heard about this in the movie when their show was discussed. When I heard that they thought it would be a great effect to have the horns playing in and toward the back corner of the field but "sound like they are playing at you" due to the mics aimed at the full corps I was like, "then why march into and play toward the back corner of the field? I always love it when a corps uses the haunting, echo effect of playing backfield." Beyond that, I agree with the many who feel mics on the entire ensemble is a very bad direction for DCI. I may be a dino, but have liked most of the other changes up to this point. But this is worse, IMHO, than even the thought of adding woodwinds. At least that would be adding other acoustical sounds. Mics on the full ensemble, and even worse turning up and down the mics on different sections of the ensemble, drastically reduces the skills needed by that hornline to learn how to achieve a balance between the voices, especially as they move to different areas of the field. STOP IT NOW PLEASE!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar1974 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Interesting comment about rewarding the best soundman- I agree with this. Although I am impressed with corps' integration of electronics (esp Bluecoats), I feel the implications are really far reaching. When do audiences start to revolt against it? Most the soloists who are mic'd are buffing out their sound with reverb/delay/chorusing. Studio effects that sweeten the sound. What if they pitch correct (which can easily be done in real time), would fans care? The more electronics and studio effects become relied on to "enhance" and buff, the less the human element comes into play. The more synthetic it all becomes. Would people still regard the old Star of Indiana horn books if they knew only a handful of players were playing those licks and cleverly mixed into the line? Would we care if drumlines start doing this and supplementing bass line runs and tricky licks with electronic percussion plug-ins punched in by a soundman? The funny thing to me is that I don't think anyone goes to hear a great chamber choir and says "it'd be great if we put some effects and auto tune on this!", or goes to the philharmonic and wishes that a synth could double the bass parts for more "support". By mic'ing and amplifying, we've lost the human powered element. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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