Need help with BD Chop and Paste, Walk and Stand approach to design

[MikeRapp]

17 hours ago, chaddyt said:

I won't comment on the park and bark, because I would tend to agree this year seems to have its fair share of it.

But in terms of design, I think you're way off.  It took me quite a few years to come around to it, but nothing that the Blue Devils design team does is divorced of their show concept.  Every last detail is thought through.  You may not like it or may not get it, but it's all there for a reason.  

If you want a great look into how this corps puts together their shows, check out their BD360 series on YouTube.  It is extremely well done.

I agree with this 100%. My issue with BD is the sameness of their show designs in general, but I also understand it is fully intentional, just like what Bluecoats has been doing over the past three seasons.

i will say, though, that SCV has very little park and blow. This year they are marching while playing very, very difficult passages.

[Stu]

6 hours ago, Cappybara said:

There's still marching, there's still music, but now we've thrown in another level of difficulty that I like to simply call "performance."

This activity has only, in the words of Nintendo, "leveled up"

Here is what I am getting at:

DCI pre-Y2K: Fan 1 “Wow, that was Awesome!"; Fan 2 “Yep, that was Phenomenal!”

DCI post-Y2k: Fan 1 “Ummmmm, I realize it was high quality, but what was that?”; Artistic Academic “That was a progression of the Visual Performance Art form where the subtle nuances are characterized by the Tai Chi, and the intellectual stimulation derives from the play within a play conceptual motion with underlying sound enhancement, while the….”; Fan 1 interrupts, “Huh?”; Artistic Academic gives Fan 1 a patronizing smile, then turns and whispers to himself “Troglodyte.”

Edited July 9, 2017 by Stu

[MikeRapp]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

Here is what I am getting at:

DCI pre-Y2K: Fan 1 “Wow, that was Awesome!"; Fan 2 “Yep, that was Phenomenal!”

DCI post-Y2k: Fan 1 “Ummmmm, I realize it was high quality, but what was that?”; Artistic Academic “That was a progression of the Visual Performance Art form where the subtle nuances are characterized by the Tai Chi, and the intellectual stimulation derives from the play within a play conceptual motion with underlying sound enhancement, while the….”; Fan 1 interrupts, “Huh?”; Artistic Academic gives Fan 1 a patronizing smile, then turns and whispers to himself “Troglodyte.”

But I have no problem with this. It is a far more diverse activity now, and that expands reach and involvement. Yes some shows miss their intended mark, but I'd rather have groups try something new and even at times more intellectual than just marching around and playing big notes.

I do think show designers should fully realize that without fans in the stands no one loads a bus. But I also realize that corps directors count their merch money just like the next guy or gal. You roll with what you do and can do well.

[ComeHomeShane]

Today's society is constantly seeking to perfect everything. Be it a product, an experience, or a feeling; the only way to stick out from the bunch is make your thing newer and/or different. The pace at which we become dissatisfied with our thing is increasing constantly... meaning we are satisfied for shorter periods of time and that satisfaction time is getting exponentially shorter. 

I view DCI design to have many of the same characteristics... corps have always searched for the element that will set them apart and make their thing more effective than the others, just nowadays we're at a point where the satisfaction with good ideas does not last very long and to be the most effective a corps must have a new thing that makes judges take notice or rethink what is effective. 

I hope for the day when 'cool music + cool drill = cool show' IS the new thing that corps must do to be new. IMO we're on our way there already...

BD show design reminds me of skit comedy while other corps may be a longer cohesive narrative, but that's not limited to only BD. 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by ComeHomeShane

[Cappybara]

25 minutes ago, Stu said:

Here is what I am getting at:

DCI pre-Y2K: Fan 1 “Wow, that was Awesome!"; Fan 2 “Yep, that was Phenomenal!”

DCI post-Y2k: Fan 1 “Ummmmm, I realize it was high quality, but what was that?”; Artistic Academic “That was a progression of the Visual Performance Art form where the subtle nuances are characterized by the Tai Chi, and the intellectual stimulation derives from the play within a play conceptual motion with underlying sound enhancement, while the….”; Fan 1 interrupts, “Huh?”; Artistic Academic gives Fan 1 a patronizing smile, then turns and whispers to himself “Troglodyte.”

I'm very confused by this criticism considering the people it typically comes from. 

The people who complain about the artistic highbrow stuff in shows nowadays often want good music a drill without having to worry about a theme. Then just stop worrying about the theme. Enjoy the music and drill, the theme is just another added element in these shows. 

After a season ends, I only listen to DCI shows, never really watch them, and I find the music to be just fine with plenty melody and excitement

[mirrormen]

11 minutes ago, ComeHomeShane said:

Today's society is constantly seeking to perfect everything. Be it a product, an experience, or a feeling; the only way to stick out from the bunch is make your thing newer and/or different. The pace at which we become dissatisfied with our thing is increasing constantly... meaning we are satisfied for shorter periods of time and that satisfaction time is getting exponentially shorter. 

I view DCI design to have many of the same characteristics... corps have always searched for the element that will set them apart and make their thing more effective than the others, just nowadays we're at a point where the satisfaction with good ideas does not last very long and to be the most effective a corps must have a new thing that makes judges take notice or rethink what is effective. 

I hope for the day when 'cool music + cool drill = cool show' IS the new thing that corps must do to be new. IMO we're on our way there already...

BD show design reminds me of skit comedy while other corps may be a longer cohesive narrative, but that's not limited to only BD. 

 

I like your take on all of this. The analogy of BD to skit comedy is spot on for me (and that is not condescending), as opposed to the linear approach most corps take. 

[Stu]

33 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

But I have no problem with this. It is a far more diverse activity now, and that expands reach and involvement. Yes some shows miss their intended mark, but I'd rather have groups try something new and even at times more intellectual than just marching around and playing big notes.

I do think show designers should fully realize that without fans in the stands no one loads a bus. But I also realize that corps directors count their merch money just like the next guy or gal. You roll with what you do and can do well.

If the design teams within DCI want to continue to move DCI into the realm of ‘progressing the art form using the vehicle of intellectual stimulation and academic edification’ more power to them.  But it is a matter of organizational identity and potential numbers within the desired fan base combined with the extreme cost of coast to coast tour production. The movers and shakers within DCI need to realize that high quality Performance ‘Entertainment’ fills 60,000 stadium venues full of fans willing to pay top dollar, whereas high quality Performance ‘Art’ appeals to far fewer people and is thus consigned to smaller Art Houses as well as the bowels of Academic Art venues; and Performance ‘Art’ mainly runs off of Grants/Benefactors not high dollar ticket sales in order to stay afloat.  So as we move forward, the powers at be within DCI better be careful because I venture to say that most who will spend $600+ on tickets, travel, motel, and food to go to Finals want to be ‘entertained’ not ‘intellectually stimulated and academically edified’.

[derbydawg]

I do think BD is given the positive nod much more often than not when design choices are in doubt. More power to them I guess. I do not think they are trying to get away with stuff, I just think they take advantage of their special license to experiment and try things, even when they miss the mark. 

[Candid Insight]

Although I am new to DCP I have been involved in the activity as a marching member, instructor, arranger, and judge for over 4 decades (brass).

Because of that, I have seen the transitions the activity has made and the posts in this thread reflect a breadcrumb trail of the progression, plus the diverse perspectives people have regarding the design changes we now see.  Although I am an older fan, I appreciate most of the innovation that we are seeing.

Park and play has become a staple for corps for the 'compulsory' sixteenth note segments seemingly written into all all brass programs. Some corps do it (play while not moving) more than others (as noted with Blue Devils). Even the 'walking to the next set' approach is not particularly offensive to me if well coordinated and not drawn out.  What seems a bit unfair is when one top 5 corps (Corps A) walks to the next set for their transitions and does a ton of park and play while another top 5 corps (Corps B) delivers a continuous orchestrated and difficult visual design, and much less park and play, yet Corps B gets lower scores.  This seems to reward a corps for attempting less.

An example from 2016 is Crown versus Blue Devils.  Both corps performed at an extremely high level.  Crown had very little 'park and play', and no significant walking to the next set in their show.  The Blue Devils had significant 'park and play' and quite a bit of 'less organized' transitions.  I appreciated both shows very much, but it seemed Crown got less credit in the content areas, specifically lower scores in Visual Analysis and Music Analysis.  From my perspective, it seems easier to perform while stationary and visual sets that are 'free form' act as almost as a 'break' from the visual being judged. Some people will disagree and cite Blue Devils' less organized transitions are part of their design and should get higher credit. I enjoy a difficult brass passage played well, and I think doing that on the move should get more credit. Personal preferences are huge and artistry is very subjective, so I know many people have a totally different take on this.  I am not saying that Crown should have been above Devils in overall scoring.  I am just pointing to those specific scores.  In my opinion, the brass books and performance levels were equivalent and since Crown attempted more they should not (in my opinion) have been under Devils in those specific captions.

Many of my friends are highly critical of the Blue Devils for doing less yet scoring more.  Some of them actually LOOK for where the Devils 'do less', even timing the amount of the park and play segments.  I try to look past the scores and just appreciate the incredible performances of all the corps.  My thanks to the original poster - this thread was interesting to read.

 

 

 

[Stu]

11 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Enjoy the music...

Really? It is rather impossible to enjoy sound production and performance that has no comprehensible musical phrasing, no musical melodic component to grasp, and is dictated by the sole purpose of keeping our attention glued to the visual stimuli.  What we hear to day is an amalgamation of fast notes, Impact, chord, impact, decrescendo, fast notes, crescendo, chord, chord, Impact,... again all of which have no understandable 'musical' cohesiveness whatsoever but the sound does underpin the visual motion.