So what are we going to do about it?

[ThirdValvesAreForWimps]

It should be about the sound, man.

Not the sound man.

[exitmusic]

3 minutes ago, tedrick said:

this is a good start - but it's going to take corps directors going to the DCI rules committee and starting a process there ---

Hopefully the folks at Marching Roundtable will continue covering this issue --

If we do nothing, the activity will keep pushing in the audio engineering direction and drum corps will lose the uniqueness of live unamped brass performance -- 

Imagine if brass bands in England felt the need to start messing around with mic'ing their ensembles in order to get more sound or the sound they wanted?

Were you around here several years ago when some guy that posted here actually got one of the corps to give him a few minutes to present at the BoD meeting in regard to why amps are bad?

The guy was laughed out of the room, to put it charitably.

We are decidedly not British brass bands. We're an activity that evolves. Some of the stuff the engineers do is really cool. Some isn't. Then again, some of the stuff that is done acoustically is cool. Some isn't.

[luv4corps]

1 hour ago, shofmon88 said:

It is readily becoming apparent this season that the new trend of amplifying entire hornlines (or large ensembles) is not sitting well with the fanbase. I have seen many calls for either the judges to limit rewarding or even penalize amplification of this magnitude, I've seen calls for DCI to change rules to better define what can and can't be done.

All this clamoring will not do anything if confined to DCP. 

Action is what brings change. I ask the community, the fans, parents, and alumni, for help in drafting an open letter to DCI. We obviously have concerns, let us voice them directly.

Being able to sign on to the letter will obviously be important, as there is strength in numbers. It should be disseminated as far as possible as well: to Reddit, at shows, etc. I do not know a platform that will facilitate this, so help here is appreciated. 

Below, I've typed out an example of what this could look like. Please help me flesh it out a bit. I will consider all criticism, as long as it is constructive. And please, keep the subject to amplification and electronics usage, this is not the proper time for an argument about rights, streaming, the fan network, etc. 

 

 

 

I would say that if one corps does it, then they all need to to do it, or it isn't a fair contest.  

But you know, there is even a difference in sound systems between corps.  I went to a BD rehearsal when they passed through my hometown (Portland) and saw that they have an extensive array of woofers and tweeters strung in front of the pit and out to the sides.  Contrast that with, say, OC, a corps with a just a few main speakers. 

In my opinion, what we need is a level playing ground for every corps.  To judge corps against one another when one of them has a far superior sound system and better placed mics or more plentifully placed mics is really not an indication of talent and skill alone.

It appears though that opinions such as mine are outmoded.  Many people seem to feel that anything goes and all is fair in love and war.  Do what you have to do to put the best product out on the field and those who lag behind must adapt and keep up or suffer the consequences.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by luv4corps

[ThirdValvesAreForWimps]

1 minute ago, exitmusic said:

Were you around here several years ago when some guy that posted here actually got one of the corps to give him a few minutes to present at the BoD meeting in regard to why amps are bad?

The guy was laughed out of the room, to put it charitably.

We are decidedly not British brass bands. We're an activity that evolves. Some of the stuff the engineers do is really cool. Some isn't. Then again, some of the stuff that is done acoustically is cool. Some isn't.

Not all evolution in drum corps is good.  In fact, much of it is bad.

[2muchcoffeeman]

16 minutes ago, exitmusic said:

We are decidedly not British brass bands. We're an activity that evolves. Some of the stuff the engineers do is really cool. Some isn't. Then again, some of the stuff that is done acoustically is cool. Some isn't.

No one has a problem with being an activity that evolves. I marched more than half a lifetime ago, and even then I would have had no interest in joining a corps that had the look and sound of the early-70s corps.

Your line of logic is totally fine for musical expression generally. If DCI were simply an open mic night where any act could have its 15 minutes, there would be no issue.

But drum corps remains a competitive activity, one that is conducted within a set of rules. More than that, it is these very rules that give the activity much of its power to attract a certin set of young music and dance performers. There is a mysterious power of boundaries that can, paradoxically, spark the most creative outbursts of imagination. Innovation and achievement within a set of boundaries is its own special thrill. This is a concept others have been able to articulate better than I can here, and it is a seminar topic of its own. Suffice to say here that drum corps needs guardrails to keep it a unique, compelling art form that attracts some of the best young musical talent in the world. It isn't for every kid. There are talented young performers who devote their summers to classical music camps in the mountains, and more power to them. I will buy tickets to watch them someday -- maybe this summer. But their violin concertos would be ruined by a battery of drums bashing through, so they aren't allowed.

Experimentation? Fine. But we can't ignore the unique form of drum and bugle corps. If we remove the guardrails, it ceases to have any unique characteristics. As I've said elsewhere, when you toss every ingredient into the pot, every item on the menu tastes the same, and that would be a real shame.

Edited July 18, 2017 by 2muchcoffeeman

[N.E. Brigand]

6 minutes ago, exitmusic said:

Were you around here several years ago when some guy that posted here actually got one of the corps to give him a few minutes to present at the BoD meeting in regard to why amps are bad?

The guy was laughed out of the room, to put it charitably.

We are decidedly not British brass bands. We're an activity that evolves. Some of the stuff the engineers do is really cool. Some isn't. Then again, some of the stuff that is done acoustically is cool. Some isn't.

The then-director of the Cavaliers argued quite publicly when amplification was initially approved (for 2004) that it was a bad idea for several reasons.

However, once the season got underway, my impression is that the Cavaliers felt they were in danger of being laughed off the field, as it were, by the judges for not keeping up with the Joneses, so they amplified. (And won.)

But does that mean he was wrong in the first place? Nope. "Defeat is no refutation." Just because some people throw in the towel doesn't negate the value of their cause.

"Hige sceal þē heardra,   heorte þē cēnre,

mōd sceal þē māre,   þē ūre mægen lytlað."

 

Anyway. Shofmon: change "whilst" to "while" so no one at DCI thinks that this is a bunch of British brass-band snobs.

[xandandl]

Just now, N.E. Brigand said:

The then-director of the Cavaliers argued quite publicly when amplification was initially approved (for 2004) that it was a bad idea for several reasons.

However, once the season got underway, my impression is that the Cavaliers felt they were in danger of being laughed off the field, as it were, by the judges for not keeping up with the Joneses, so they amplified. (And won.)

But does that mean he was wrong in the first place? Nope. "Defeat is no refutation." Just because some people throw in the towel doesn't negate the value of their cause.

"Hige sceal þē heardra,   heorte þē cēnre,

mōd sceal þē māre,   þē ūre mægen lytlað."

 

Anyway. Shofmon: change "whilst" to "while" so no one at DCI thinks that this is a bunch of British brass-band snobs.

nah but he is living in a British imperial colony of sorts (Australia) and history tells us what the British Imperialists are like.

[N.E. Brigand]

2 minutes ago, xandandl said:

nah but he is living in a British imperial colony of sorts (Australia) and history tells us what the British Imperialists are like.

As per my quote they get slaughtered by Danish imperialists.

[Liahona]

48 minutes ago, CCond said:

 If we rehashed the same techniques we used when we were limited by the technology of the time how are we improving the activity?

A lot would argue...me included...that amp'ing an ENTIRE brass line for the ENTIRE show is NOT improving the activity...This is not an argument of not embracing change either...it stems at DESTROYING the very foundation of our performance based activity as we've know it...if you can't see that..I really don't know what else to say...

Edited July 18, 2017 by Liahona

[2muchcoffeeman]

There's a reason why this scene is so exhilarating. They figured it out within the boundaries given to them. Putting mics on the whole horn line would be like waving a magic wand to make the challenge disappear.