MikeRapp Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 1 minute ago, JKT90 said: G and Z were judging GE. G scored them low but Z scored them high. G missed some visuals completely. Z jumped on him about how he could miss it. G said had he seen it, their content score would have been higher. Hm. Never saw that or heard about it. I cannot imagine the frustration that exists between directors and judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Insight Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 51 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: If you adopt a methodology where 100 is a perfect score, you have an inherently problematic scoring system for DCI. Because basically you have to control content scores to prepare for the possibility of over-achieving 100 points, which of course is practically impossible. The previous "tick" system basically scored by adding up achievements throughout a show. This, however, created an environment in which the wining show was nothing more than a series of compulsories. There is no doubt the current system has yielded an environment in which there is a wider range of show ideas, and imho much more compelling performances for the audience. That, ultimately, is the goal of dci, or has become the goal. But content should not be defined by a judge's knowledge of what you are trying to do, imho. Content should be objective, achievement should be subjective. You state: "The previous "tick" system basically scored by adding up achievements throughout a show. This, however, created an environment in which the wining show was nothing more than a series of compulsories." This statement is inaccurate. The 'tick' system that was discontinued in the early 80's did not 'add up achievements'. That system was designed to DECREASE a caption score based on the number of errors a judge detected. For example, in brass execution every corps started out with 15 points. For every error the brass execution judge detected one 'tick' or tenth of a point was deducted. The problem with that system was that a corps who played a less challenging book could score higher by attempting less. Less exposure could result in a higher execution score. The Musical Analysis caption (10 points) included consideration for difficulty (to a degree) but it still did not offset the advantage of a corps that played a less challenging book. You are correct that the current system has created an environment with more compelling performances and that has encouraged more dynamic programs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboogey73 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 It's a fair question. Thats just how DCI judging goes. 95% of the time a corps score increases from one show to the next. It's naive to think every corps' performance is better then the one they did 24 hours ago, but that's just how it has to be. You couldn't have every corp start in the 90's. There has to be a gradual progression to make the season compelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 1 hour ago, mboogey73 said: It's a fair question. Thats just how DCI judging goes. 95% of the time a corps score increases from one show to the next. It's naive to think every corps' performance is better then the one they did 24 hours ago, but that's just how it has to be. You couldn't have every corp start in the 90's. There has to be a gradual progression to make the season compelling. There isn't a perfect way to score this activity. There isn't a completely objective way to measure content or achievement. In the end, what everyone wants is the best show winning the gold, second best winning silver, etc. I think that, in the end, we get that end result for the most part, Question: Do corps share their musical, drill and guard books with the judges? If not, why not, and if so, how is that process overseen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Memphis1980 said: How insane would the Olympics be if a gymnastics routine, which has been the same, gets a new difficulty rating each round? ... it's nonsense for DCI to prentend that difficulty goes up 25 points in 7 weeks. Great analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Ghost said: Possibly, but if the content (difficulaty?) doesn't change, then why do the content numbers go up? As a corps marches and plays better, the achievement scores should improve. As things clean up, nuances become more evident. Demands become more noticeable. Doing something and being dirty as sin doesn't allow the judge to fully grasp and reward what's being shown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Ghost said: If a block does not change since late June through finals, but the mm march it cleaner, the content should not change, just the achievement. If the judges are finally seeing or hearing better later in the season, even if the content hasn't changed much, we're being conned. Once clean getting into the block can be rewarded for how it's done as it's more readable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 5 hours ago, MikeRapp said: Judges notice more? That doesn't really pass the smell test to me. These judges literally make a, iving dissecting shows,of all shapes and sizes. They can bore even the most astute and entrenched of us in the details of these shows. They pick apart every single aspect of every moment of these programs...and yet I am to believe that after three months of this they are somehow discovering things corps are doing that they didn't see or hear before? Every night? Sorry but that's bs, and we all know it. I don't know what type of communications DCI has with judges regarding their shows. But I would assume that they are providing charts and dot drills for every show throughout the season. If they aren't, why not? Since you seem to know how " easy" it is to judge, contact dci and apply to go thru the trial process. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Ghost said: If a block does not change since late June through finals, but the mm march it cleaner, the content should not change, just the achievement. If the judges are finally seeing or hearing better later in the season, even if the content hasn't changed much, we're being conned. Or are we conning ourselves? A number of people on these forums were saying, about three or four weeks ago, that most of Bluecoats' drill is mostly follow-the-leader and thus easy. I haven't heard those complaints over the past week. So it seems that anyone who felt that way before but not now would have to say the content went way up even though it really didn't change that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 1 hour ago, MikeRapp said: There isn't a perfect way to score this activity. There isn't a completely objective way to measure content or achievement. In the end, what everyone wants is the best show winning the gold, second best winning silver, etc. I think that, in the end, we get that end result for the most part, Question: Do corps share their musical, drill and guard books with the judges? If not, why not, and if so, how is that process overseen? That I know of musical scores and drill books aren't shared. Things change daily. You'd have to update them daily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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