DCI Scoring methodology

[cowtown]

I think it’s almost as strange as when a 10th place score gets 10^th place in all captions…and then you see that pattern for most placements.

[Jim Schehr]

1 hour ago, Schnitzel said:

To be blunt: no.  Judges must report any and all affiliations (primary and secondary) in all the major organizations (DCI, DCA, BOA, USBands, WGI, etc.).  In the small world of marching arts, competitors are very aware of potential conflicts of interest, and it would be difficult to circumvent private and public scrutiny. 

Thanks - So it's left up to the judges to report.  Would a judge be required to report being taken out to dinner by an organization prior to a competition in which that same judge would be judging that organization?

Edited July 31, 2017 by Jim Schehr

[hughesmr]

23 hours ago, Schnitzel said:

This is quite an interesting discussion.  A couple of sub-topics need clarification, IMO:

• Judging DCI, DCA, etc. is not a professional career.  The actual pay is very low (much lower than WGI or BOA, etc.), and the "average" judge does about 4 shows per season.  Most judges actually report a financial loss for their tax exposure from drum corps judging.  If you do it enough, the frequent-flyer miles are pretty good, however.  That's about it.  
• There is some formal communication during the competitive season among adjudicators and administrators, but not much.  Judges are most always professionally engaged in some sort of "day job" outside the marching activity - in fact, most use vacation time to judge shows.  So the idea of this collective roster of full-time judges ready for deployment is not one based in reality.
• No musical scores, drill charts, etc. are ever submitted to adjudicators before, during, or after the season.  It has been discussed over the years, but to this point has not been attempted.  As stated earlier, the charts would change daily, if not hourly.
• I know it probably disappoints some, but the idea that there is any fiduciary link between a judges' scoring patterns and ANY direct or indirect relationships in the pageantry community is fallacious and insulting to all involved.  To a person, judges are first-and-foremost advocate/fans of these youth activities whose professional lives are focused elsewhere.  Of all the hired labor in drum corps (administration, design, instruction, consulting, etc.), adjudication is easily the least financially profitable.  In fact, considered from purely an economic standpoint, the pay and non-existent benefits are quite sub-standard in light of the education, training, experience, and diverse skill-set required to perform at such a high level.  These are special people.

At least they get nice outfits to wear.

[xandandl]

7 minutes ago, Jim Schehr said:

Thanks - So it's left up to the judges to report? Kinda like filing your taxes and hope you don't get audited. 

DCI wrote a policy of protocol after Shirlee Whitcomb was found doing band camp clinics for Freddie Martin's hs. band and then judging Spirit of Atlanta which he directed. While the paper still stands, it has been more a gentleman's agreement.

I think the conflicts aren't as apparent now but are still there. Who judges USSBA/USBands run out of Cadets office, who judges UIL, who judges the Northern Cal band circuit run out of the offices of Blue Devils,) and why are so many of the judges past mms of West Coast corps over the years? So many of the northeastern and Canadian judges seem to have retired or will be doing so shortly as have the Midwesterners. It's greater than the challenges we had in the old boys' network in years gone by. Now the manufacturers with their endorsers and clinicians become part of quagmire as well.

[xandandl]

9 minutes ago, hughesmr said:

At least they get nice outfits to wear.

no the costume designers want to change that next, ho, ho.

Earlier in this season the shows had judges who wore only black. Whether that was because they couldn't fit into last year's duds or the newest ones hadn't arrived, I don't know. But it didn't hide them as unobstrusive.  Even Messr. Rondinaro, DeLucia and Pitts were given new duds for TV.

Will Pitts is one of the most upstanding Southern Baptist Georgian gentlemen I know.

However, conflict of interests examples may have to include whether the arranger/designer of the Phantom Regiment should be the public voice of the national championships. Should not the broadcasters presenting a contest seem at least to be neutral? It's as quirky as an announcer overstressing Regiment, SCV, and Troopers ...all corps where said booth announcer once volunteered seriously. Drum corps lore? of course. But any question of conflict of interest re-evaluation and authenticity has to look at what should be, not but that's the way we've always done it. The wisdom of Solomon (the king, not the DCI judge) hopefully prevails.

Edited July 31, 2017 by xandandl

[Jim Schehr]

12 minutes ago, xandandl said:

DCI wrote a policy of protocol after Shirlee Whitcomb was found doing band camp clinics for Freddie Martin's hs. band and then judging Spirit of Atlanta which he directed. While the paper still stands, it has been more a gentleman's agreement.

I think the conflicts aren't as apparent now but are still there. Who judges USSBA/USBands run out of Cadets office, who judges UIL, who judges the Northern Cal band circuit run out of the offices of Blue Devils,) and why are so many of the judges past mms of West Coast corps over the years? So many of the northeastern and Canadian judges seem to have retired or will be doing so shortly as have the Midwesterners. It's greater than the challenges we had in the old boys' network in years gone by. Now the manufacturers with their endorsers and clinicians become part of quagmire as well.

When the livelihood of those involved depends on many factors it does come into question, after all would there still be a marching activity if no one was getting paid? 

[xandandl]

6 minutes ago, Jim Schehr said:

When the livelihood of those involved depends on many factors it does come into question, after all would there still be a marching activity if no one was getting paid? 

Today with the 24/7 programs that comprise the activity, good question. BITD (and up until about 1988) we were almost all volunteer. Even the "faculty" and "designers" got but a pittance if anything at all. The West Coast corps with their different abilities to fund raise changed that. The standards set by Bill Cook and Star of Indiana changed it further. Then the drum manufacturers, the horn manufacturers, and full summer touring put the volunteers only in the carrot crew. It isn't always the lawyers but they added to it too.

[Jim Schehr]

11 minutes ago, xandandl said:

Today with the 24/7 programs that comprise the activity, good question. BITD (and up until about 1988) we were almost all volunteer. Even the "faculty" and "designers" got but a pittance if anything at all. The West Coast corps with their different abilities to fund raise changed that. The standards set by Bill Cook and Star of Indiana changed it further. Then the drum manufacturers, the horn manufacturers, and full summer touring put the volunteers only in the carrot crew. It isn't always the lawyers but they added to it too.

Living in Chicago all these years you can buy anything especially people 

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, hughesmr said:

At least they get nice outfits to wear.

And years ago, I saw a few sharing a limo.

[TwoValves]

Where exactly is the basis for the idea that "Content" on the judging sheets is equal to "Difficulty?"  Does that word even exist anywhere in the judges sheets or instructions?