Tenoris4Jazz Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: No one will argue this. In fact, that is sort of the common argument against them. Down here, a lot of people give Alabama football a great deal of begrudged respect. I think that's what BD is owed. You can hate them for their success, but until you can top them at their own game, you're just playing for 2nd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I guess you can call me a BD contrarian as well, however the entire discussion can be boiled down to preference. There is a fatigue out there because BD is 1 or 2 every year, and a show the fans or an individual preferred did not win, and many cannot explain why. For example I thought Crown had a better show in 2009, 2012 and 2015, but BD won all 3 years. So I have to check my own personal biases before evaluating what BD actually puts on the field and not hold on to past resentments. It took me until recently to see that genius in the 2010 show and appreciate the performance level in 2014. Knowing my own prejudice is there, I look for reasons to explain my bias. Yes I think physically what BD does is easier than the traditional drill of Crown or SCV, but I really do not know since my personal experience has nothing to do with body movement since I marched almost 20 years ago. So again it comes down to preference. I direct musical theater so I know in a way the difficulty of what BD does, but its gets to a question of what is harder, doing one impossibly hard thing perfectly, or doing 100,000 simple things perfectly simultaneously? I prefer the pure brass sound of Crown over the top heavy jazz (that sounds almost fully electric) of BD. However when both are so technically good, how do you come up with a score where one wins and the other loses? The problem is that we are trying to compare apples and oranges when the difference in the actual performance is a matter of almost negligible degrees. That is why there is so much debate and passion, and why this thread is created every year. In the end when I am at work, I'm humming BDs ballad in my head and I cannot remember a single musical moment of SCV....that has to count for something. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBD Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 21 minutes ago, ContraFart said: I guess you can call me a BD contrarian as well, however the entire discussion can be boiled down to preference. There is a fatigue out there because BD is 1 or 2 every year, and a show the fans or an individual preferred did not win, and many cannot explain why. For example I thought Crown had a better show in 2009, 2012 and 2015, but BD won all 3 years. So I have to check my own personal biases before evaluating what BD actually puts on the field and not hold on to past resentments. It took me until recently to see that genius in the 2010 show and appreciate the performance level in 2014. Knowing my own prejudice is there, I look for reasons to explain my bias. Yes I think physically what BD does is easier than the traditional drill of Crown or SCV, but I really do not know since my personal experience has nothing to do with body movement since I marched almost 20 years ago. So again it comes down to preference. I direct musical theater so I know in a way the difficulty of what BD does, but its gets to a question of what is harder, doing one impossibly hard thing perfectly, or doing 100,000 simple things perfectly simultaneously? I prefer the pure brass sound of Crown over the top heavy jazz (that sounds almost fully electric) of BD. However when both are so technically good, how do you come up with a score where one wins and the other loses? The problem is that we are trying to compare apples and oranges when the difference in the actual performance is a matter of almost negligible degrees. That is why there is so much debate and passion, and why this thread is created every year. In the end when I am at work, I'm humming BDs ballad in my head and I cannot remember a single musical moment of SCV....that has to count for something. We can all say this. I think BD was robbed in 08. Spartacus was great but if you really want to talk about a tough drill then 08 BD set the standard. Sorry but your BD hate shows thru when you say Crown was better in three different years. Crown is great but they always seem to have one weakness somewhere. Even this year I still haven't figured out their props. I keep hoping they adjust. I don't like all the vocals but I give them mad props for being willing to push the envelope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, MikeBD said: We can all say this. I think BD was robbed in 08. Spartacus was great but if you really want to talk about a tough drill then 08 BD set the standard. Sorry but your BD hate shows thru when you say Crown was better in three different years. Crown is great but they always seem to have one weakness somewhere. Even this year I still haven't figured out their props. I keep hoping they adjust. I don't like all the vocals but I give them mad props for being willing to push the envelope. 08 is not a year I paid attention because there were no shows in South FL and fan network did not start until 09. But if you read my post and say its BD hate, then you really didn't get it and must be one of those BD people that insist everyone bow down to their greatness and all opinions contrary are wrong, then complain that there is "BD hate" on a forum discussing drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBD Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I don't feel that way at all and challenge you to find one post where I have said anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeBD said: I don't feel that way at all and challenge you to find one post where I have said anything like that. By inferring that my preference for Crown those 3 years is "BD hate" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Yawn, same discussion as usual regarding BDs show design and execution. Boring and talked to death. Same as it ever was, which is why I haven't posted much the last several weeks. After the first couple of weeks there are no surprises for the season. No, not even Boston or Mandarins. I expect SCV to nip BD in the end for the feel good story of the season, but they should be a bit ahead even now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBD Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, ContraFart said: By inferring that my preference for Crown those 3 years is "BD hate" I have read numerous posts by you where you take subtle digs at BD. We get it. You aren't the biggest fan and that is perfectly fine. I love diversity in corps and like all of them. BD is my favorite because the first finals I ever attended in 86. That is still my favorite show of theirs ever until this year. I have numerous friends that love dci that literally won't post on here because they appreciate all the corps and their are too many on here that just look to put down other corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinetic inferno11 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 47 minutes ago, Tenoris4Jazz said: Down here, a lot of people give Alabama football a great deal of begrudged respect. I think that's what BD is owed. You can hate them for their success, but until you can top them at their own game, you're just playing for 2nd. A Fellow Alabamian!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MikeBD said: I have read numerous posts by you where you take subtle digs at BD. We get it. You aren't the biggest fan and that is perfectly fine. I love diversity in corps and like all of them. BD is my favorite because the first finals I ever attended in 86. That is still my favorite show of theirs ever until this year. I have numerous friends that love dci that literally won't post on here because they appreciate all the corps and their are too many on here that just look to put down other corps. The video of Wayne Downey breaking down the individual parts of "the Great Divide" on PBS in 1993 was the first thing I ever saw in Drum Corps. As a 14 year old freshman, just finishing my first marching season, it had a huge impact on me. 1993, 1994 and 2006 BD are among my all time favorite shows. So my preference away from their approach in recent years is not a dislike of the organization. Read my post. I admit there are personal biases and past resentments, but in the end I would like the aesthetics I personally value to also be valued by the judging community, and when they haven't been for a long period of time, it creates fatigue Edited August 2, 2017 by ContraFart 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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