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Why Blue Devils should win DCI 2017


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1 hour ago, cowtown said:

I prefer performance to trump design as long as the design allows the performers to show off their skills and for BD, it does. I don’t think anyone will catch BD because they are the best performers on the field followed by Crown. Last year design won the day as Crown marched, spun and played the best. They have the caption awards to prove it. There isn’t a show on the field this year with a strong enough design to beat performance so BD wins.

I believe the design of Ouroboros is equal or greater in overall brilliance than Down Side Up was.

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1 hour ago, cube said:

I believe the design of Ouroboros is equal or greater in overall brilliance than Down Side Up was.

I would disagree on your point.  Down side up, was a brilliant show, beginning to end which was performed in spectacular fashion by the Bluecoats.  Every thing that was in that show was innovative in it's concept and the performance of the concept.  I don't see that this year from anyone.  There are great shows such as,  BDs GE generation in GE through its brass section - which has been flat out incredible, but I still see it as lacking in its visual concepts (not performance because they are performing it at a very high level), in that they just don't have the a very demanding or difficulty built into the show at all, in its visuals.  Santa Clara has everything you'd want in a show, but again, one weakness - in my opinion, is the music which walks the line of people either loving the what SCV is doing in their brass with amplification amongst a very few and very talented few, with micing certain people that can handle the lines of difficulty in the music while the other brass line players play supporting roles, making it appear to the naked ear that an entire section or the illusion, unless you listen closely, of the full section of entire section of brass, playing the difficult lines. Auditory illusion!  Nothing against it in the rules, but is the spirit of the rule being followed?  We could go on and on as nauseum, but no reason to frustrate everyone.  The rules congress needs to find a small group of the board of directors to sit diwn and draft something that would make sense in the parameters to which those rules need to be applied.  Send it to DCI, work out the things that don't make sense, add and subtract, then vote on it.  Right now it's the Wild, Wild West with electronics and amplification and it needs to be reigned in before it becomes a "the haves vs. the have nots" - which is what it is right now.  Sorry, I have ventured into the area I should not.

Anywho, my premise was that SCV's show was not the breakthrough show that Stars was/is.    It's wonderful, but for me, musically. It's an in your face type of show with no let up, which is something needed to allow the audience to breath and take in what they seen and heard.  

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I understand the focus on BD winning and SCV being a strong contender to win.   Usuallly left out of the discussion is Crown.  All CC has done is close the gap on SCV from .7 to .15 in one day and have left the Bluecoats in their wake.  

AND, Crown still is not done in showcasing their finished product - that may come as late as Saturday.    Crown has a show that is resonating with the judges, can perform inside the musical captions as well as anyone - or better - and, has a guard that is coming together at the right time.  

Although I wouldn't bet against BD, their final placement is not etched in stone - YET.  I suppose that's why they play the game.

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1 hour ago, Vdad76 said:

I would disagree on your point.  Down side up, was a brilliant show, beginning to end which was performed in spectacular fashion by the Bluecoats.  Every thing that was in that show was innovative in it's concept and the performance of the concept.  I don't see that this year from anyone.  There are great shows such as,  BDs GE generation in GE through its brass section - which has been flat out incredible, but I still see it as lacking in its visual concepts (not performance because they are performing it at a very high level), in that they just don't have the a very demanding or difficulty built into the show at all, in its visuals.  Santa Clara has everything you'd want in a show, but again, one weakness - in my opinion, is the music which walks the line of people either loving the what SCV is doing in their brass with amplification amongst a very few and very talented few, with micing certain people that can handle the lines of difficulty in the music while the other brass line players play supporting roles, making it appear to the naked ear that an entire section or the illusion, unless you listen closely, of the full section of entire section of brass, playing the difficult lines. Auditory illusion!  Nothing against it in the rules, but is the spirit of the rule being followed?  We could go on and on as nauseum, but no reason to frustrate everyone.  The rules congress needs to find a small group of the board of directors to sit diwn and draft something that would make sense in the parameters to which those rules need to be applied.  Send it to DCI, work out the things that don't make sense, add and subtract, then vote on it.  Right now it's the Wild, Wild West with electronics and amplification and it needs to be reigned in before it becomes a "the haves vs. the have nots" - which is what it is right now.  Sorry, I have ventured into the area I should not.

Anywho, my premise was that SCV's show was not the breakthrough show that Stars was/is.    It's wonderful, but for me, musically. It's an in your face type of show with no let up, which is something needed to allow the audience to breath and take in what they seen and heard.  

In your post you state :

"amplification amongst a very few and very talented few, with micing certain people that can handle the lines of difficulty in the music while the other brass line players play supporting roles, making it appear to the naked ear that an entire section or the illusion, unless you listen closely, of the full section of entire section of brass, playing the difficult lines. Auditory illusion! "

A few points:

1) It is not intended as an illusion.  The 'small ensemble' wears gray uniforms, so they are highlighting them, not trying to fool anyone. 

2) The high brass feature of the Blue Devils uses a similar technique, amplifying a subset of their high brass players.  In fact, the Blue Devils place 6 microphones along the front sideline and amplify various segments of their brass line during their show. 

3) Most of the top corps use amplification.  You can tell by the extra microphones placed along the front sidelines that are in addition to the recording microphones used by FloMarching.  One of the interesting things to note in this regard is how well these corps are maintaining balance while doing this - noticeable LIVE, but not apparent on the FloMarching streams.

4) If you attended an SCV rehearsal or have watched SCV on a You Tube video that features SCV's brass line you would recognize that the entire SCV brass line plays some very difficult passages and many of them are on the move, not stationary.   While their 'small ensemble' plays some of the most difficult passages, the entire brass line does play a considerable amount as well while moving.  If you want to contrast that against the Blue Devils you might notice that nearly all of the difficult passages the Devils play (note: Flight of the Bumblebee in particular) are played while stationary or moving very little.  This is not to diminish the Devils - they are phenomenal.  But to imply that SCV's brass line is devoid of difficult content is not accurate.

5) Amplification, like any key instruments, dance, and corps changing uniforms annually is probably here to stay.  What should be scrutinized is the difference between corps that use RECORDED vocals (singing), versus LIVE vocals.  Corps should be rewarded for achievement.  Performing live exemplifies achievement, Hitting a button that plays a vocal does not.  From people in DCI's inner circle, there will be some discussion about how to differentiate live versus recorded, but it is unlikely they will hit the brakes on amplification of live performance content.

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People, people, people.....

We seem to have problems operating under the rules of this thread, which were stated by the topic's author at the outset:

..."I have started two threads, hoping to keep both from starting as supportive for one unit over another, or to becoming bashing of one group under another"

One thread is for why SCV should win.  If you want to state why you think they should win, go over to the other thread.  It is not allowed to state why BD won't win, in their own why they should win, thread.   Please vacate the premises. 

thank you

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8 hours ago, NakedEye said:

I don't get this one at all. I find SCV's show as emotional as a Geometry II class. It's extremely well engineered (and I think people who enjoy math/tech/analytics enjoy it for that reason), but emotional? I'm not feeling it. Best wishes to The Snake, but I'm not too captivated by your lifecycle.

BD, on the other hand oozes emotion, from the classic voiceovers to the numerous tributes to past shows, to the from-the-heart solos. For whatever reason, as soon as they start the fast motion after the jazz bark in the closer, I always get choked up. Something about the way the music begins to build, combined with the visual. Then there is a big payoff when the horns and soloist come back in. It's just very emotionally effective, with undoubtedly more to add this week.

I agree. I used this word in the BD thread, but sterile is a good way for me to describe how I view SCV's show this year 

Edited by Cappybara
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2 hours ago, Candid Insight said:

In your post you state :

"amplification amongst a very few and very talented few, with micing certain people that can handle the lines of difficulty in the music while the other brass line players play supporting roles, making it appear to the naked ear that an entire section or the illusion, unless you listen closely, of the full section of entire section of brass, playing the difficult lines. Auditory illusion! "

A few points:

1) It is not intended as an illusion.  The 'small ensemble' wears gray uniforms, so they are highlighting them, not trying to fool anyone. 

2) The high brass feature of the Blue Devils uses a similar technique, amplifying a subset of their high brass players.  In fact, the Blue Devils place 6 microphones along the front sideline and amplify various segments of their brass line during their show. 

3) Most of the top corps use amplification.  You can tell by the extra microphones placed along the front sidelines that are in addition to the recording microphones used by FloMarching.  One of the interesting things to note in this regard is how well these corps are maintaining balance while doing this - noticeable LIVE, but not apparent on the FloMarching streams.

4) If you attended an SCV rehearsal or have watched SCV on a You Tube video that features SCV's brass line you would recognize that the entire SCV brass line plays some very difficult passages and many of them are on the move, not stationary.   While their 'small ensemble' plays some of the most difficult passages, the entire brass line does play a considerable amount as well while moving.  If you want to contrast that against the Blue Devils you might notice that nearly all of the difficult passages the Devils play (note: Flight of the Bumblebee in particular) are played while stationary or moving very little.  This is not to diminish the Devils - they are phenomenal.  But to imply that SCV's brass line is devoid of difficult content is not accurate.

5) Amplification, like any key instruments, dance, and corps changing uniforms annually is probably here to stay.  What should be scrutinized is the difference between corps that use RECORDED vocals (singing), versus LIVE vocals.  Corps should be rewarded for achievement.  Performing live exemplifies achievement, Hitting a button that plays a vocal does not.  From people in DCI's inner circle, there will be some discussion about how to differentiate live versus recorded, but it is unlikely they will hit the brakes on amplification of live performance content.

Since when is having a particular section playing by themselves considered "amplifying a subset of brass players?" I believe that's called a "feature." Unless I'm missing something lol

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57 minutes ago, c mor said:

People, people, people.....

We seem to have problems operating under the rules of this thread, which were stated by the topic's author at the outset:

..."I have started two threads, hoping to keep both from starting as supportive for one unit over another, or to becoming bashing of one group under another"

One thread is for why SCV should win.  If you want to state why you think they should win, go over to the other thread.  It is not allowed to state why BD won't win, in their own why they should win, thread.   Please vacate the premises. 

thank you

Doesn't the author violate his own rules? Half of his reasoning is in favor of SCV:lle:

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3 hours ago, Cappybara said:

Doesn't the author violate his own rules? Half of his reasoning is in favor of SCV:lle:

Indeed...

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