DrumScorps

2017 Open Class Championships - Aug 8

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4 minutes ago, DrumManTx said:

But it's hard to compete with two corps who are essentially World Class corps with smaller tours and attached to monster parent organizations.  That's definitely not a slight at them, it's no wonder they're that successful when they have that and the kind of talent they're drawing.  

Maybe the question ought to be: why didn't SCVC and BDB dominate Open Class before 2008? Or what changed since then?

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2 hours ago, RetiredMusTeach said:

I'm a Nashvillian so Music City is my home corps and I love them and hype them on a regular basis.  But I'm also a big fan of Open Class in general and have loved the crop of excellent corps this year, with a new "crush" on Southwind.  I wasn't going to comment on Nuts4DC's post but I feel compelled to.  First, I don't think MCDC was intentionally disrespectful because they are a very polite, grateful, thoughtful bunch who had one of their snare drummers die during spring move-ins.  They dedicated this season to Finis Sparkman and in particular, the finals show.  So, like all of the corps there, this was an emotional time for them and I think playing "The Tennessee Waltz" was a comforting thing for them to do.  I doubt that anyone told the corps "no celebrations, playing, etc. on the field after the awards - leave that for the gold medal winner."  If that had been the case, I'm sure they would have honored it.

This open class forum has been one of the "safe places" on DCP where, for the most part, comments have been encouraging about each corps.  Please, Nuts4DC, don't shame any of the open class corps again.  I'm very happy for SCVC and they were awesome and deserved every award they got.  But lets give some love to all those other corps who displayed such showmanship last night.  Peace, love, and positivity.

Nope... this isn't MCs first time to Championships. They know the protocol, as it was reminded to ALL directors the night before at the directors meeting. I know because you can here the meeting from the stands. After  scores are announced and corps dismissed they have the opportunity to embrace and take photos. Once the announcement is made to clear the field, that is when the winning corps gets to take a personal moment on the field alone for photos and on a rare occasion play, depending on the corps. MC knew exactly what they were doing. SCVC was waiting for MC to leave..but they never did. 

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19 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Maybe the question ought to be: why didn't SCVC and BDB dominate Open Class before 2008? Or what changed since then?

That is a great question honestly, have wondered myself for awhile.   

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8 minutes ago, Nuts4DC said:

Nope... this isn't MCs first time to Championships. They know the protocol, as it was reminded to ALL directors the night before at the directors meeting. I know because you can here the meeting from the stands. After  scores are announced and corps dismissed they have the opportunity to embrace and take photos. Once the announcement is made to clear the field, that is when the winning corps gets to take a personal moment on the field alone for photos and on a rare occasion play, depending on the corps. MC knew exactly what they were doing. SCVC was waiting for MC to leave..but they never did. 

I stand corrected then.  Sorry.  I still ask you for some grace to be applied.

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59 minutes ago, DrumManTx said:

That is a great question honestly, have wondered myself for awhile.   

They use to field a lot smaller corps. I know BDB fielded a full 150 the past couple of years. SCVC was close to that. Was there a limit like 90 members back then? Yeah I remember in 2007 in Pasadena. Both corps were good but didn't medal. I think they were 4th and 5th or something like that. Then all of a sudden their dominance in Open started in 2008. I also believe they did not tour to DCI Championships every year back then.

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27 minutes ago, DrumManTx said:

That is a great question honestly, have wondered myself for awhile.   

My theory has been that the recession that started in fall 2007 hit many corps harder than people realized, and only the two who had strong organizations to lean on were able to maintain and build on what they'd achieved to that point. Also in the past several years, both BDB and SCVC have been regularly attending O.C. championships, which wasn't always the case. (Speaking of O.C. corps from California, yesterday in Michigan City I spoke briefly with someone from Golden Empire, who told me they do hope to attend in the future; he didn't say whether that meant next year or five years from now.) Here are all corps except BDB and SCVC that medaled in Open Class / Div. II in the five years previous to the decade now concluding, showing how they did in that time period and subsequently:

Academy -- didn't tour 2003-2005; 1st 2006; to Div. I in 2007: 13th, 18th, 14th, 14th, 15th, 15th, 18th, 19th, 16th, 15th, 11th

Blue Stars -- Div. III (1st) in 2003; to Div. II; 5th 2004; 2nd 2005; to Div. I in 2006: 14th, 14th, 8th, 8th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 12th, 9th, 11th, 9th

East Coast Jazz -- 4th 2003, 2nd 2004, 2nd 2005, 2nd 2006; inactive since 2007

Esperanza -- 1st 2003; to Div. I in 2004: 21st, 20th, 22nd; inactive since 2007

Fever -- 3rd 2004; 5th 2005; to Div. III in 2006 (5th, 2nd); inactive since 2008

Jersey Surf -- 5th 2003, 8th 2004, 7th 2005, 7th 2006, 2nd 2007, 3rd 2008; to Div. I in 2009: 20th, 21st, 25th, 20th, 22nd, 22nd, 28th, 26th

Patriots -- 2nd 2003; inactive since 2004  (FYI, their repertoire in 2003 included "A Kaleidoscope of Mathematics"!)

Spartans -- 3rd 2003, 1st 2004, 1st 2005, 3rd 2006, 1st 2007; 14th 2008, inactive 2009; 3rd 2010; 4th 2011; 4th 2012; 4th 2013; 4th 2014; 3rd 2015; 5th 2016; 5th 2017

Teal Sound -- Div. III in 2003-04 (7th, 3rd); to Div. II; 4th 2005, 9th 2006, 3rd 2007; 5th 2008; 4th 2009; to Div. I in 2010: 20th, 20th; inactive since 2011

In short, all but one of the best corps either moved up or folded (or both). And that one, Spartans, took a year off, returning slightly weaker then before. It's taken most of the decade since for other, newer corps like Genesis, Legends, and Music City to come, as shown by the trend you identified, close to the top level. And even then, as Legends' urgent call for help this year shows, danger lurks.

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13 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

My theory has been that the recession that started in fall 2007 hit many corps harder than people realized, and only the two who had strong organizations to lean on were able to maintain and build on what they'd achieved to that point. Also in the past several years, both BDB and SCVC have been regularly attending O.C. championships, which wasn't always the case. (Speaking of O.C. corps from California, yesterday in Michigan City I spoke briefly with someone from Golden Empire, who told me they do hope to attend in the future; he didn't say whether that meant next year or five years from now.) Here are all corps except BDB and SCVC that medaled in Open Class / Div. II in the five years previous to the decade now concluding, showing how they did in that time period and subsequently:

Academy -- didn't tour 2003-2005; 1st 2006; to Div. I in 2007: 13th, 18th, 14th, 14th, 15th, 15th, 18th, 19th, 16th, 15th, 11th

Blue Stars -- Div. III (1st) in 2003; to Div. II; 5th 2004; 2nd 2005; to Div. I in 2006: 14th, 14th, 8th, 8th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 12th, 9th, 11th, 9th

East Coast Jazz -- 4th 2003, 2nd 2004, 2nd 2005, 2nd 2006; inactive since 2007

Esperanza -- 1st 2003; to Div. I in 2004: 21st, 20th, 22nd; inactive since 2007

Fever -- 3rd 2004; 5th 2005; to Div. III in 2006 (5th, 2nd); inactive since 2008

Jersey Surf -- 5th 2003, 8th 2004, 7th 2005, 7th 2006, 2nd 2007, 3rd 2008; to Div. I in 2009: 20th, 21st, 25th, 20th, 22nd, 22nd, 28th, 26th

Patriots -- 2nd 2003; inactive since 2004  (FYI, their repertoire in 2003 included "A Kaleidoscope of Mathematics"!)

Spartans -- 3rd 2003, 1st 2004, 1st 2005, 3rd 2006, 1st 2007; 14th 2008, inactive 2009; 3rd 2010; 4th 2011; 4th 2012; 4th 2013; 4th 2014; 3rd 2015; 5th 2016; 5th 2017

Teal Sound -- Div. III in 2003-04 (7th, 3rd); to Div. II; 4th 2005, 9th 2006, 3rd 2007; 5th 2008; 4th 2009; to Div. I in 2010: 20th, 20th; inactive since 2011

In short, all but one of the best corps either moved up or folded (or both). And that one, Spartans, took a year off, returning slightly weaker then before. It's taken most of the decade since for other, newer corps like Genesis, Legends, and Music City to come, as shown by the trend you identified, close to the top level. And even then, as Legends' urgent call for help this year shows, danger lurks.

Raiders can be added to this list as they placed 2nd in Div III in 2001; 1st Div III in 2005 and 3rd in Div 3 in 2006

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4 hours ago, OldBones said:

Raiders can be added to this list as they placed 2nd in Div III in 2001; 1st Div III in 2005 and 3rd in Div 3 in 2006

Thanks. I stuck to Div. II medalists, but if someone wants to list all the Div. III medalists from the past 15 years (until that division ended) and their later achievements, by all means do so. Raiders made it to Div. II or Div. III finals in every one of those years, as it happens. An admirable record.

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On 8/9/2017 at 5:30 PM, N.E. Brigand said:

My theory has been that the recession that started in fall 2007 hit many corps harder than people realized, and only the two who had strong organizations to lean on were able to maintain and build on what they'd achieved to that point.

I would propose it's even simpler than this. There is absolutely no financial incentive for an Open Class corps that is not financially "covered" by a World Class corps to stay Open Class. Open Class corps are expected to go on the same tours as the WC corps but are paid nothing for shows (even most of the Open Class ones, although a few are moving toward creating an Open Class pool for participants if/when they can afford it). 

If you're fielding 150, making the scores, and you're able to make it through the DCI hoops, it's in your best interest financially to move up, which is why you won't see corps like Pioneer who struggle with numbers move back down. 

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1 minute ago, cmchandler said:

I would propose it's even simpler than this. There is absolutely no financial incentive for an Open Class corps that is not financially "covered" by a World Class corps to stay Open Class. Open Class corps are expected to go on the same tours as the WC corps but are paid nothing for shows (even most of the Open Class ones, although a few are moving toward creating an Open Class pool for participants if/when they can afford it). 

If you're fielding 150, making the scores, and you're able to make it through the DCI hoops, it's in your best interest financially to move up, which is why you won't see corps like Pioneer who struggle with numbers move back down. 

But wasn't all of this true before 2008? The question under consideration was why have BDB and SCVC dominated in the past decade after not having done so before? My theory may not be correct, but it does account for the change.

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