Jeff Ream Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 15 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said: No, don't try to isolate me and make me feel like the odd duck out here. Thousands of people hate the push towards corps-wide winter guard outfits. That's well documented on this site, as well as on reddit. And that's only the thousands who have expressed their disdain for them publicly. There's nothing 'kewl' about corps-wide bodysuits, there's nothing innovative about them, there's nothing inspiring about them. They're sparkly pajamas. Nothing more. And they're a slap in the face of good taste. Not to mention a slap in the face of 40 to 80 years of tradition. You can't sit there and try to say that DCI isn't being sabotaged and subverted by WGI and BOA, when they're taking active measures to take the very worst aspects of those activities and shoehorn them into drum corps. here's what you don't get: it's all one big activity. Way back, DCI was the undisputed trend setter. You may not know this but 2 decades before DCI, Senior corps drove the trend setting bus....then slowly it morphed to the junior corps. Because DCI was so stuck in "we cant change mode", greater experimentation happened in marching band and indoor. when DCI finally stopped feeling they had to be beholden to grumpy old fans ###### that the horns werent in G with two valves doing color pres and 40 corps a year playing tiger of San Pedro or Chuck Mangione, things done in indoor and band world bled back to DCI. Now it's all one big happy family of ideas flowing back nd forth...and that's a good thing because if stuck in the old ways, DCI would be dead. the fan who loved that older stuff and didnt keep loving changes would be watching it die because kids today like the new stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 14 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: Even George Hopkins doesn't seem enamored of where DCI had gone. Really, though, try not to go all Louise Mensch. More facts less opinion will help your case. well if he could use technology better to score higher he'd be ok 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said: No. Not wanting to spend thousands of dollars in order to spend an entire summer working very hard to ultimately look and sound like a complete fool in a clown costume is NOT missing the point. I personally know six young adults (who don't even know each other, all from different schools...they're not even my students) that possess the talent to march in any world class corps. Yet each of them say the same thing. "I'm not really interested in paying that much money to be in a dance band" (well, one of them actually says something a little more...nuanced, but I can't repeat that here). Granted, those six students all come from programs whose directors don't take their cues from Bands of America, directors who all marched in drum corps themselves, and who have shown their students plenty of tape of actual drum corps, old and new, not pressuring those students into making a decision one way or another, allowing them to see, hear, and make informed decisions themselves. Yeah, it's a small sample. Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to conduct a nation-wide survey, beyond the feedback documented and archived on this site and others, which each and every one of us has access to. But six different students in four different counties spread out over 80 miles? If I'm totally off base, then that sure is a pretty big coincidence, no? yet thousands of kids are auditioning to do what you call working hard to run around in clown costumes. i dont think you're clearly in touch with the kids today as you claim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brichtimp Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Everyone has a different history of drum corp fandom. Way back in my college days in So Cal, our most talented brass players enjoyed watching VK and Kingsmen (pre DCI), but did not see them as the north star for emulation in their playing. They were, instead, carrying around the latest CSO recording (Mahler 5, etc.) and looking to get that orchestral sound on the football field. Now, over the decades, my view is that the depth of quality brass and percussion talent in DCI has never been greater; and when I can hear it, undiluted by poor amplification, the musical satisfaction and enjoyment is great, especially with the incredible arrangements and creativity in the activity. That said, I believe there is something to be said for the iconic uniforms that helped define the top corps, and I dislike the idea of that apparent change. This year, SCV and Coats are a little too similar in that regard, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: No, I'm sorry, I fundamentally and emphatically disagree with you. And I simply can not move on from all this. I put in too many years as a fan, a member, and a supporter to just "move on" and accept that this is ok simply because George Hopkins says it's ok. This is not the way of the future. It's a gigantic step backwards. you can disagree, the real world has facts to back it up. I'm the last person you should call a Hop fan, I've bashed and trashed him enough on here and other places since i discovered the internet to have actually had him curse my name in a DCI Board meeting. I'm the guy that leaked the G7 proposal onto DCP. Needless to say, he's not the president of my fan club, nor me to his. I helped get the petition to stop amps and electronics started that was eventually proposed and presented at the Januals several years ago. I'm third generation drum corps, with family in it since WW2. My dad came home from rehearsal, moms water broke and i was born the next morning. hell the joke is i was conceived at DCA finals in 68. 90% of my social network is connected to the activity and to be honest, I have few hobbies outside of drum corps. I actually walked away from DCI for 4 years after the amps stuff passed. many of the complaints now made I spoke up about in 2003. Do I find it all good? No. But then again I hated stuff in the 70's....good lord, please, no more Children of Sanchez! I remember sitting at Franklin Field in 76 listening to my grandfather ##### about Bayonne because they danced! They made fun of drum corps! Horrors! I can only imagine his reaction if he had lived to see their 80 show with the South winning the war at the end! Drum corps had to change. attendance was dying. kids were doing band, with far more cool stuff than what DCI was doing. Kids today embrace technology. They dont feel like they have to wear a certain uniform just cause. It's obvious what is happening is working, because we're no longer losing attendance every year. Drum corps has been about change since day 1....adding valves, different types of percussion...good lord adding the contra and timbales in 61 was controversial! it will continue to change til my kids is old enough to get there. And the bottom linme is you have to adapt or walk away. I tried walking away. I missed it. I stopped being so closed minded about "what drum corps should be" and started enjoying it again. If you can't fine so be it. But don't come in here expressing your beliefs as fact, when in reality the stats don't back you up one ###### bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: well if he could use technology better to score higher he'd be ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) I was going to spend some time this afternoon talking about how DCI has abandoned its "music in motion" mission statement, but the thread entitled "Segmentation" pretty much addresses everything I was going to cover, and it does so far more eloquently and diplomatically than I ever could. And Jeff, I get it. You want me to shut up. Well I've got news for you bub, I'm not going to. You might as well knock off the "there's nothing you can do" rhetoric because, unlike you, I'm not a quitter. And I AM doing something. What are you doing? Telling people there's no point in resisting. If there was no point in resisting, then we'd all be speaking german right now. Something for you to think about. Edited August 11, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Bobby L. Collins said: I was going to spend some time this afternoon talking about how DCI has abandoned its "music in motion" mission statement, but the thread entitled "Segmentation" pretty much addresses everything I was going to cover, and it does so far more eloquently and diplomatically than I ever could. And Jeff, I get it. You want me to shut up. Well I've got news for you bub, I'm not going to. You might as well knock off the "there's nothing you can do" rhetoric because, unlike you, I'm not a quitter. And I AM doing something. What are you doing? Telling people there's no point in resisting. If there was no point in resisting, then we'd all be speaking german right now. Something for you to think about. i'm going to spend some time watching semis from my family room, occasionally checking DCP and work email. no i dont want you to shut up per se. I want you to look in the mirror and realize if this is how you're teaching kids, then maybe you need to change your approach. You want to ##### and moan fine, I've had fun with that kind online since 1997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Here Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: If there was no point in resisting, then we'd all be speaking german right now. Something for you to think about. Metaphorically comparing DCI with WWII is very over the top. The two contexts have nothing in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Just now, Just Here said: Metaphorically comparing DCI with WWII is very over the top. The two contexts have nothing in common. Except that isn't what I did. And deep down, I think you probably already know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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