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A question for the purists: was there more that could have been done?


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1 minute ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Except that isn't what I did.  And deep down, I think you probably already know that. 

I wasn't trying to slam you, but to bring your intended meaning out more. Jeff did a lot of speaking out against certain elements in the activity, but I think time will make a judgment as to what needs to be done. Trust me, if the current direction starts to lose money it will change back. Unfortunately, the trend is to do change to the fullest until one looks up and sees that there needs to be some balance with change. I personally think that will title contending corps entertainment has gone out the window.

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I finally decided to read through this thread after being accused of lying in another thread by a rook.  And to my surprise, not, it is discovered that the same rook is also being snarky to others within this thread.  Gotta love DCP!!!!!

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9 minutes ago, Stu said:

I finally decided to read through this thread after being accused of lying in another thread by a rook.  And to my surprise, not, it is discovered that the same rook is also being snarky to others within this thread.  Gotta love DCP!!!!!

 

A dirty diaper smells in every room, right?

 

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Is that really your only input, Stu?  I was hoping you'd dissect my points and provide some insightful feedback.  I mean, that's literally all I asked you to do earlier.  But if you just want to troll, I'll tell you exactly the same thing I told you in the other thread.  

But I'll add this.  You haven't even seen snark yet.  And I'd kind of like to keep it that way.  So don't test me, ok?

Edited by Bobby L. Collins
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1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

No, I'm sorry, I fundamentally and emphatically disagree with you.  And I simply can not move on from all this.  I put in too many years as a fan, a member, and a supporter to just "move on" and accept that this is ok simply because George Hopkins and his entourage of enablers say it's ok.

Well it's NOT ok.  This is not the way of the future.  It's a gigantic step backwards.

Look, I totally get where you are coming from. There is no doubt some things have gone too far. Even George Hopkins admitted that. Most people I know on DCP have NOT been blind supporters of electronics and amps and even costumes. Far from it.  There are many threads on here that demonstrate that. I myself do not like everything I see.  I do believe some drum corps have done a good job of balancing all the extras with good solid show design and musicianship.  My stance on all this has always been:

1) things will change, even if you try to stop them

2) the activity is about our youth, and they have grown-up in a different culture with different influences and needs from those in the 60s, 70s, 80s, even 90s

3) you can't force change -- not in a large activity of people from various backgrounds, ideologies, desires, and creative talents. The collective whole of these people will push things to unexpected places, therefore change is not forced but happens naturally. Not all change is good. We know that. And some change is great.  George Hopkins did not do this alone. Neither did Dave Gibbs.  Some good came of it, and certainly some bad; but stopping change is impossible. Rules can be changed (as they were), and maybe they can be changed back or at least modified to control the present situation. Who knows?

4) Big picture: There will always be something new on the horizon because the older fans move on and eventually die, and the young take over and take control. Father time is evil, but those of us who are 50 or older have less time and much limited power in shaping this activity to our liking. Those in their 20s will one day rule the lay of the land, and it will be their activity whether you like it or not. 

Edited by jwillis35
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5 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

Look, I totally get where you are coming from. There is no doubt some things have gone too far. Even George Hopkins admitted that. Most people I know on DCP have NOT been blind supporters of electronics and amps and even costumes. Far from it.  There are many threads on here that demonstrate that. I myself do not like everything I see.  I do believe some drum corps have done a good job of balancing all the extras with good solid show design and musicianship.  My stance on all this has always been:

1) things will change, even if you try to stop them

2) the activity is about our youth, and they have grown-up in a different culture with different influences and needs from those in the 60s, 70s, 80s, even 90s

3) you can't force change -- not in a large activity of people from various backgrounds, ideologies, desires, and creative talents. The collective whole of these people will push things to unexpected places, therefore change is not forced but happens naturally. Not all change is good. We know that. And some change is great.  George Hopkins did not do this alone. Neither did Dave Gibbs.  Some good came of it, and certainly some bad; but stopping change is impossible. Rules can be changed (as they were), and maybe they can be changed back or at least modified to control the present situation. Who knows?

4) Big picture: There will always be something new on the horizon because the older fans move on and eventually die, and the young take over and take control. Father time is evil, but those of us who are 50 or older have less time and much limited power in shaping this activity to our liking. Those in their 20s will one day rule the lay of the land, and it will be their activity whether you like it or not. 

Well said.

Just to add . There are many over 50 who also recognize this and guide those young ones who will take over. This is how traditions can cross over, what's old can be new again, a sense of who we are, who we were and most important who and what we can become. This, imo is why we can even talk or debate an activity that for many reasons could have died off decades ago.

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11 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

Look, I totally get where you are coming from. <<followed by hundreds of words that very much refute that statement>>

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if anyone truly gets where I'm coming from.  Actually, that's not fair.  I know many do.  But those individuals have simply already given up on the activity, and do not comment on DCP.

I think people here are just so used to being beaten down by the same 5 or 6 trolls on here, they've just adapted a Stockholm Syndrome thousand yard stare.  I don't like it, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I don't want to read anyone else's thoughts on it, because it reminds me that I don't like it.

If you truly got where I'm coming from.......I don't think you'd be trying to change my opinion.

Edited by Bobby L. Collins
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On 8/9/2017 at 4:17 PM, Hrothgar15 said:

FWIW when I first saw this topic I interpreted the question as "Was there more we could have done to stem the tide of change and letting drum corps show get to this point?" to which I would answer, "Yes: we could have listened to Scott Stewart and his vision for the activity."

Hrothgar15, I must confess that I do not know who Scott Stewart is.

Would you please identify him and expand on your suggestion about listening to his vision.

Have we had a thread on DCP that includes a discussion of this vision?

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