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Cadets 2018


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23 hours ago, HbRJgdZHsbc said:

Mostly positive comments and a score well into Box 5 - looks solid.  

The comments reflect achievement, not placement.  If you want to understand how they compared to the other drum corps and why there were 7 teams better and many teams worse you should listen to the tapes from the other corps.  You cannot derive placement from vocabulary on a single commentary file.  

I think you're hitting on the correct issue here. Going back to my competitive years with a youth arts band that competed in Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan in the summers (MACBDA curcuit), I remember listening to lots of tapes and viewing sheets. Often judges like to use the tapes to point out the positives in the show, the strengths. Occasionally they will make note of something that needs some work, or something that they are not sure about. You usually get more of this early season.  It was assumed that some directors or caption heads would play tapes for their sections (in our circuit this was true), and typically comments would reflect a professional yet positive nature, an overview. The more detailed critique was in the sheets. And often a more detailed critique came after the show when we met with the judges. There we learned things that were not in the sheets or on the tape. 

Now, this was a band circuit and I have no idea how our sheets were compared to DCI's at the time (90s & early 2000s). But typically it has been my read on things that judges are looking for your strengths, your achievement, and noting those things on the tapes. Because of the specific nature of the sheets it is easier for them to score the issues and weaknesses in the show on paper. 

Another thing to remember with that Cadets percussion tape is that the top 12 percussion sections are all amazing. We somehow get the idea that because a corps, like The Cadets, took 8th or 7th in percussion that somehow they are bad.  They were FAR from bad. In fact they were quite amazing!!!  DCI presents different issues for judges. What's the difference between Crown brass and BD brass? .1 right. To me that's a toss up. And both were freaking off the charts compared to anything we hear in h.s. band or college band.  But Madison's brass line was incredible as well. A lower top 12 line, but compared to most of what we hear they rock the house. By the end of the season most judges are going to have praise for a horn line like Madison. How about how well Phantom's brass played from the ballad to the end of the show? WOW! That old Phantom magic made a return, and I am sure the judge noted that on the tapes. He/she still scored the line and ranked them according to other great lines, but if I were judging Phantom's brass I doubt my Finals tape would need to be full of critique and major problems. There were certainly a few things I would have noted, but on a whole they deserved major praise. The sheets will let me apply the appropriate score.  

If you're in the top 12 in any caption in DCI then I imagine you have a really good, maybe great, maybe amazing caption. I think judges are going to reflect on the tapes just how great that caption is. In the end, at the DCI level, it's just about who's greatness is just a little greater. 

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On 8/20/2017 at 6:18 PM, Cappybara said:

I'm still 21 :)

Old Man!

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Just something I have thought about:

Will Cadets be able to separate their new identity from the old uniform?  They have done nothing but head downward competitively since changing to black towards the end of '15.

Sometimes I wonder (and I don't say this to be controversial) if Cadets were over scored or given the benefit of the doubt just because they were wearing the traditional Cadet uniform in maroon and gold.  Just bc it was "the Cadets".

I don't think the traditional uniform can work in DCI anymore it is just not where the activity is.  The only way would be a show along the lines of "Toy Souldier"  where the uniform is part of the characterization.  Or a BD type thing where they start in it and change, but that theme was done to death this summer.

I think Cadets were aided by their uniform up until the past 10 years, and then over the past 10 years it actually hurt and limited them.  Now, its not fair, but they are in such a tough situation where they kind of lack an identity, and that is such a crucial aspect of DCI.

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8 hours ago, cadet93 said:

I think Cadets were aided by their uniform up until the past 10 years, and then over the past 10 years it actually hurt and limited them.  Now, its not fair, but they are in such a tough situation where they kind of lack an identity, and that is such a crucial aspect of DCI.

Mostly agree. The shift to costumes or modified uniforms has definitely changed things. When this began to happen I knew that a corps like Cadets, with their longtime history and decades worth of alumni who have expectations, would face challenges that other corps did not face. Can the Cadets continue to adapt, as I believe they began to this past summer? Yes. Will it be controversial with many alumni and longtime fans? Yes. Could the Cadets win with their classic maroon, gold, and cream look? Sure. They would need the right show, but it could happen. But DCI tends to be a copycat league, much like the NFL. Current trends are to modify the look of your uniform for your show.  Crown has been doing for years. They have modified the colors and styles while maintaining a certain look in hat style.  BD has been modifying their uniforms for a long time, and this year took that to another level with several different looks. Bluecoats have modified their uniform numerous times, but in the last 2 years went with a full costume and not anything that resembled their traditional uniform.  I think what Cadets did this year worked. I personally liked the costumes. The robes may have hurt them visually but they worked at the onset of the show. The second uniform in the show was really nice. Maybe something like that would be cool for Cadets to modify for a future show. 

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Mr. Willis and Cadet93 are being too binary in their thinking and not creative enough.

From its inception Crown, like Star, has not had a "Crown uniform" but has been a chameleon corps in its look, a quite different approach from what the legacy corps (Madison, Cavaliers, Boston, Phantom, SCV and Cadets) have been with their 50 to almost 90 year identities. Boston tried the Crown type costuming this year; it has pluses and minuses (grey in the LOS box seemed to wash out, even more on the high cam videos; plumes were radiant and used well.)  Modern styles have as much problems as the traditional wears.

You are comparing  kiwis and apples and expecting these fruits to taste the same. Different tastes altogether.

The energy of the Cadets' look hasn't been just the actual color and style of the fabrics they wear; it's been their cleanliness of drill, their quest for achievement, their difficulty of maneuver Those aspects have not been there since 2011. Costumes do gloss that a lot for many units (faux skirts, half capes, distraction of multiple colors, fako-s, bizarre striping, odd cuts of materials, etc. particularly skimpy or half naked appearances by guard and other members. But the guts is still the precision and cleanliness of whatever is attempted whether Bloo sliding down ramps, BD playing mirror-mirror with stair cases, etc. or Cadets in a revolving block. 

 

 

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Agree with both of you.  I am not advocating for the traditional uniform, as I love the costuming in most cases.  I am just saying Cadets have the biggest challenge with this.  Although I would throw SCV in the same boat, and they did it with success.  Altough I wasnt the biggest fan of their look.  So it can be done.  It will be interesting to see where both go next year.

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On 8/26/2017 at 1:01 PM, MikeRapp said:

And to be clear, I'm not saying the way DCI scores shows, and the final results, are wrong or inaccurate. It's just that you have to understand the intent of the scoring system. 

If a judge walked into the field and didn't even look at the previous nights' scores, or worse any other scores for the corps all season long, there is no way in hades scores would be as consistently predictable as they are. Every judge understands the intent of the system. You don't walk in and say, I think this show content is six points lower than all the previous judges and keep your job as a judge.

Just looking for clarity.  Are you saying the judges should be looking at previous recaps and scores?  Are you saying they do look at previous recaps and scores?  Or are you saying they do both?  

And are you suggesting that is a healthy or unhealthy practice for the activity?

Again, not challenging your statement but I'm simple and sometimes need to get it to yes/no status to get my head around it.  LOL.

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1 hour ago, HbRJgdZHsbc said:

Go on...

You're missing the point. A corps staff doesn't get to hear everyone's tape - only their own. 

When the line they teach is being scored 8th they want to hear constructive feedback as to why - aka areas of opportunity the judge sees

Then they have something useful

George.

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4 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

You're missing the point. A corps staff doesn't get to hear everyone's tape - only their own. 

When the line they teach is being scored 8th they want to hear constructive feedback as to why - aka areas of opportunity the judge sees

Then they have something useful

George.

Yeah.  I got your point the first time around.  I also already spoke to exactly what you said:

"The comments reflect achievement, not placement.  If you want to understand how they compared to the other drum corps and why there were 7 teams better and many teams worse you should listen to the tapes from the other corps.  You cannot derive placement from vocabulary on a single commentary file."

So let's get down to brass tacks.

Judges don't compare you to another corps on a tape.  It's neither appropriate nor practical.  I hear what you are saying.  I understand your desire for that feedback.  It's just not going to happen, nor should it.  Vulnerabilities and opportunities, however, are addressed throughout the season realizing there are days left.  But don't expect too much of that in the last 24 hours - at that point the commentary is an appraisal of what is, not of what potential remains.  

Still, the best opportunities for the feedback you are interested in is the critique setting.  And those candid conversations occur often up until the last 2 weeks.  I wish critique would go all the way through the last "regular season" show, but that's just my preference.  If you want to discuss the comparison between two or more groups, that's the only place to get it done.  C'est la vie.

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