Madison Scouts 2018

[ndkbass]

1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

outside of their uniform choice last year, I can't remember one thing about the show besides it looked like Music City Mystique on a football field.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

1 gazillion stars for that!

[ndkbass]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

you can have the most talented group in the world...and bad design will keep it low every time.

You need more than talent in the administration. You need smarts. I know some great leaders who have talent, and their organizations do ok, but they never take those next steps because they're not smart.

In a certain sense I am conflating talent with smarts.  In that regard, a talented staff would know how to create good design equal to the level of their membership so that the design does not overreach or underwhelm and a talented administration would also have the smarts to lead by taking appropriate risks as necessary.

 

I agree, generally, with your analysis of Cavies even though I am not as familiar with their institutional history and their administration.  In line with that, I also think that that means the current administration of Scouts is neither talented nor smart.  Not saying you agree, although you might, but that is definitely how I see things.

[Jeff Ream]

2 minutes ago, ndkbass said:

In a certain sense I am conflating talent with smarts.  In that regard, a talented staff would know how to create good design equal to the level of their membership so that the design does not overreach or underwhelm and a talented administration would also have the smarts to lead by taking appropriate risks as necessary.

 

I agree, generally, with your analysis of Cavies even though I am not as familiar with their institutional history and their administration.  In line with that, I also think that that means the current administration of Scouts is neither talented nor smart.  Not saying you agree, although you might, but that is definitely how I see things.

something is missing. After the 07-09 years, they started to turn a corner with 2010.....even though most years felt Madison for the sake of Madison was being forced on everyone thru 13. Don't get me wrong, I loved 10,11 and 13. Since then...no.

 

Whatever it is, and I sense it's several issues wrapped into one, it's holding them back. IMO, and I'm sure this will get me a ton of #### for saying it, but their alumni, more than anyone, even old Cadets, seem to fight anything having to do with change more vocally than anywhere else. i've often said during the years DCI tried to appease older fans and recruit kids, they treaded water, even started taking some on. in 11, and especially after 13 with changes made in marketing and the judging approach, they've been full steam ahead. 

[ndkbass]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

something is missing. After the 07-09 years, they started to turn a corner with 2010.....even though most years felt Madison for the sake of Madison was being forced on everyone thru 13. Don't get me wrong, I loved 10,11 and 13. Since then...no.

 

Whatever it is, and I sense it's several issues wrapped into one, it's holding them back. IMO, and I'm sure this will get me a ton of #### for saying it, but their alumni, more than anyone, even old Cadets, seem to fight anything having to do with change more vocally than anywhere else. i've often said during the years DCI tried to appease older fans and recruit kids, they treaded water, even started taking some on. in 11, and especially after 13 with changes made in marketing and the judging approach, they've been full steam ahead. 

 

I do not disagree with you that alumni infighting is definitely a big part of it.  You can even see it here in these discussions and, if you have access, to the other spaces like the FB group.  I am out of the loop there to some degree because I do not use FB, but that only insulates me from those arguments so much.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if the infighting is so bad because it is a brotherhood, and not co-ed.  I also sometimes wonder if it is because the organization was rather steady in leadership and uniform in its identity until 2003 (although you could maybe stretch this to 2006/2007).  Since then, there have been these ups and downs and everything in between.  It is very weird to me that the corps I grew up watching the most and ended up marching longer than any other is the one I pay attention to the least performance wise.  I care more about the members and organization at this point than the end product on the field because none of the shows, like you pointed out, have really done anything for me (although there have been moments of potential).

 

Completely tangential side note because I forgot to mention earlier when you pointed out the repetition of theme from MCM to Madison last year: I personally love the DM uniform from 2006.  Wish it had been the full corps uniform.  2007's uniform was also better in the DM variant than what we wore as members in 2007 in my opinion.  2008 was meh and 2009 was not any better.  Actually, I remember the first uniform run of 2009 and the bassline being so embarrassed by the shoddy sewing that we all considered marching Couchmen because we felt bad stepping onto a field as the Madison Scouts with such terribly fitting uniforms.  At least in 2008 we had a good uniform crew that kept things tight.  But, the fact that alumni argue so much for the return of the "super suit" speaks to how those kinds of things can cloud progress and change.

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, ndkbass said:

 

I do not disagree with you that alumni infighting is definitely a big part of it.  You can even see it here in these discussions and, if you have access, to the other spaces like the FB group.  I am out of the loop there to some degree because I do not use FB, but that only insulates me from those arguments so much.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if the infighting is so bad because it is a brotherhood, and not co-ed.  I also sometimes wonder if it is because the organization was rather steady in leadership and uniform in its identity until 2003 (although you could maybe stretch this to 2006/2007).  Since then, there have been these ups and downs and everything in between.  It is very weird to me that the corps I grew up watching the most and ended up marching longer than any other is the one I pay attention to the least performance wise.  I care more about the members and organization at this point than the end product on the field because none of the shows, like you pointed out, have really done anything for me (although there have been moments of potential).

 

Completely tangential side note because I forgot to mention earlier when you pointed out the repetition of theme from MCM to Madison last year: I personally love the DM uniform from 2006.  Wish it had been the full corps uniform.  2007's uniform was also better in the DM variant than what we wore as members in 2007 in my opinion.  2008 was meh and 2009 was not any better.  Actually, I remember the first uniform run of 2009 and the bassline being so embarrassed by the shoddy sewing that we all considered marching Couchmen because we felt bad stepping onto a field as the Madison Scouts with such terribly fitting uniforms.  At least in 2008 we had a good uniform crew that kept things tight.  But, the fact that alumni argue so much for the return of the "super suit" speaks to how those kinds of things can cloud progress and change.

Cadets have been co-ed and they've had some serious wars. it isn't just a same sex thing, cause you dont see it with cavies

[madisonsmiley]

Could it be there is a lot of dissent among the Scouts' alumni because of their performance? It's an effect, not a cause. If they were winning, were better managed and not running their finances down the tubes, I doubt you would see the dissent. 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by madisonsmiley

[jpaul]

13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Cadets have been co-ed and they've had some serious wars. it isn't just a same sex thing, cause you dont see it with cavies

Cavaliers do a better job of keeping it in-house.

[Jeff Ream]

23 minutes ago, jpaul said:

Cavaliers do a better job of keeping it in-house.

that may be. plus they feared the old man's ire

[Terri Schehr]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

that may be. plus they feared the old man's ire

A lot of this dissent within the Scouts started in 2002.  There have been so many changes in 16 years.  

Edited June 13, 2018 by Terri Schehr

[queenanne_1536]

1 hour ago, madisonsmiley said:

Could it be there is a lot of dissent among the Scouts' alumni because of their performance? It's an effect, not a cause. If they were winning, were better managed and not running their finances down the tubes, I doubt you would see the dissent. 

 

 

 

Were are you getting that there's a lot of dissent? I have a couple friends who marched there and they said there is no dissent, at least based on the posts on the Facebook alumni page.