Kamarag Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: I agree with the bolded part of your statement, but I do not agree with the Scouts being a destination corps. Back when I marched, in the late 80s, so few members were there to make a career out of music, guard, visual, whatever. Nowadays, we have a lot more serious musicans and dancers amongst the ranks for these corps. In those days, someone without experience in drum corps could audition and earn a spot. No more. You're not going to get into BD, SCV or any number of top corps anymore without World Class experience under your belt. People go to lower tier corps, like Madison, to get that experience and then they move on up. It's a different day, and Madison is certainly not drawing the top talent of the activity anymore. You actually make my point for me, mostly. In our case, members are getting the experience they need to make it in Devils, Crown, Bluecoats, DCV, etc. right there in DCA (Bucs send as many as we do at Cabs). I encourage our of-age members to do DCI for the tour experience. If they have sights set on the top tier, awesome...but they don't need to do lower tier DCI to get ready (though they certainly may). So I say again, give me a reason to send kids to Scouts. Obviously, DCA is a regional thing, so not everyone has access to those corps. For them, lower-tier DCI is fantastic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 We don't do it for the scores, we do it for the crowd. Ok. I'm all in on the Scott Stewart philosophy. But let me ask: Is this year's offering designed "for the crowd"? I don't think so. So, the bond, as it were, has been broken. So, now what? Still okay to finish 15th because.......why? 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 hours ago, DCI Nerd Alert said: Isn't it about the membership experience? I mean winning is awesome and I believe every corps (even the ones that may not be in the hunt this year) want to be the best corps in the world, but only 150 students get to experience that once a year (sometimes double with ties). I have had many friends that marched the Madison Scouts ... as far back as the early 1980s. And the mantra then was "we don't do it for the score; we do it for the crowd." That was established by Scott S. As alumni, shouldn't it be about supporting the members and the organization through thick and thin? Through light and dark? Do you think the Madison Scouts this summer are having a bad experience? I doubt it. My guess is they are learning about hard work, time management, performance, and perseverance ... and they having a great time. There will always be those who have what they think are the reasons why things aren't going "the way they think it should" and everyone is entitled to their opinion. That being said... The Madison Scouts need for the alumni - all the alumni ... world champions, finalists, and semi-finalists alike - to come together and support the 2018 Madison Scouts ... including the administration, the designers, the teachers, and the members. All are working hard and continuing the great tradition established through the decades. Isn't it about the membership experience? How do you define member experience? Is competitiveness a part of this? What seems fairly clear on this forum is that the Madison alumni -- or many of those active here -- crave competitiveness. And I suspect they crave it not only for themselves but also for the current members. Is it not a bit disingenuous and self-serving to play the "member experience" card? It certainly comes across as a cop out for not being competitive as well as a slight toward the corps that ARE competitive. Is there something wrong with alumni wanting the corps to be competitive? Can we not at least reasonably assume that part of the reason corps like BD, Cadets and Crown attract top talent is because they are competing for championships? Is that not at least part of the equation in a competitive marching activity? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCI Nerd Alert Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 The activity has changed. Like it or not, what was considered "the best" in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s is no longer competitive - not "top 12" competitive. The Scouts went back to their roots in 2010 - traditional uniforms with a familiar show. The crowd loved it; they got 10th place. They held on to the uniforms for a couple more years and presented familiar drill moves that were signature "Madison Scouts" ... they inched up in placements ... and they were told, "Your effect is dated." They did a Jesus Christ Superstar show in 2016 in a Madison Scouts uniform... look where it got them competitively. The adjudicators (the ones who decide who is 1st, 6th, 10th, 15th, 22nd) have chosen not to reward traditional shows or shows that have a sense of historic-ness about them. Nobody in the top 12 is wearing traditional uniforms anymore. Not even The Cadets. The Scouts had to evolve with the activity. They are taking risks and redefining their shows to be more modern. Risks are exactly that - risky. Innovation comes from risk. The same old thing wasn't working. 2017's show was risky - some liked it and some didn't, but they gave it a shot. They are on year 2 of the risk-taking. Support them on this bold journey. There are plenty of reasons to be afraid. Evolving and redefining can be very scary. A life lived in fear is a life half lived. Standing on the shoulders of giants who constantly shrug is not going to help the Madison Scouts of today or tomorrow. They need strong shoulders on which to stand. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCI Nerd Alert Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Volt said: How do you define member experience? Is competitiveness a part of this? Knowledge - marching/movement, playing/performing... knowledge they can take to their students in the future Leadership - becoming better people through hard work, discipline, time management, and leadership development - they've had 3 Jim Jones Leadership winners since 2010... not bad Health - being provided meals and beverages that are nutritionally designed to give them the fuel they need to maintain top physical, mental, and emotional health Camaraderie - unity and trust in their fellow performers History - knowing of the shoulders on which you stand, and perhaps creating life long friendships Performance - very few things compare to the feeling of the performing in front of crowd who is there to see/hear you Competition - a crucial part of the drum corps activity is competition Art - being part of the creative process in bringing a collective of individuals together to create something unique and special Fun - it's important to enjoy the process ... after all, they are paying thousands of dollars to participate in the activity Competition is only a portion of all the important aspects of this great community. Drum corps (plural) are getting better - all of them. Somebody has to be 1st. Somebody has to be 12th. Somebody has to be last. Do I love competition? Absolutely. Is it the only reason to march drum corps? Absolutely not. I guarantee the Madison Scouts are providing top-notch education, leadership development, health, camaraderie, historical awareness, performance experience, art, and fun. Competition is decided by a panel of people who have opinions that vary and that can be influenced. The Madison Scouts administration, designers, and teachers are making changes in an attempt to be competitive in the modern sense. Change is scary. Change is risky. The Madison Scouts need alumni support. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCI Nerd Alert said: Nobody in the top 12 is wearing traditional uniforms anymore. Not even The Cadets. The Scouts had to evolve with the activity. They are taking risks and redefining their shows to be more modern. Risks are exactly that - risky. Innovation comes from risk. The same old thing wasn't working. 2017's show was risky - some liked it and some didn't, but they gave it a shot. They are on year 2 of the risk-taking. Support them on this bold journey. The new thing is working less than the "same old thing". Bluecoats and pretty much the rest of the top 12 "evolved" (hate that term), more accurately "changed", to the new musical theater thingy that's all the rage now. But they didn't have to drop out of the top twelve multiple times to get there. So, I'm not buying your argument. There's something wrong more fundamental than uniforms. The leadership and management team isn't getting the job done and it's time for a wholesale change. Yup, change is scary - do it. Edited July 2, 2018 by HockeyDad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, HockeyDad said: The new thing is working less than the "same old thing". Bluecoats and pretty much the rest of the top 12 "evolved" (hate that term), more accurately "changed", to the new musical theater thingy that's all the rage now. But they didn't have to drop out of the top twelve multiple times to get there. So, I'm not buying your argument. There's something wrong more fundamental than uniforms. The leadership and management team isn't getting the job done and it's time for a wholesale change. Yup, change is scary - do it. Let’s assume I agree with you that this isn’t working. You suggest wholesale board and administrative changes. Who do you suggest serve on the board? Who do you suggest this board hire as Executive Director? Who do you suggest this ED hire as program coordinator? Demanding change is one thing. Having solutions is another. Who are are your proposed solutions to the problems faced by the Madison Scouts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCI Nerd Alert Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 hour ago, HockeyDad said: The new thing is working less than the "same old thing". Bluecoats and pretty much the rest of the top 12 "evolved" (hate that term), more accurately "changed", to the new musical theater thingy that's all the rage now. But they didn't have to drop out of the top twelve multiple times to get there. So, I'm not buying your argument. There's something wrong more fundamental than uniforms. The leadership and management team isn't getting the job done and it's time for a wholesale change. Yup, change is scary - do it. When did you march the Madison Scouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRacer Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I see a lot of mention about the 12-17 grouping but “there is another Skywalker” in the form of an “OC in name only” drum corps known as the Vanguard Cadets. Before readers sputter, snort, scoff and poo-poo the thought, consider that in 2017 VC were...: — ...less than 1.6 away from knocking Academy out of the Friday night show, — ...placed 15th and 16th in most captions, — ...were only .075 from 14th in GE, 0.55 from 13th, — ...took down Troopers, Spirit, and Oregon Crusaders “, — ...and yet had only half the performance schedule. A lot of those kids are back, * and they want more. * A handful of kids did so well in the 2018 VC auditions, the A-corps staff asked they come in for 2018 A-corps callbacks that took place in January (part of the ‘grow from within’ initiative.) One of those callbacks was still in high school. None made it, but the experience of being around monster players and the “this is what it takes” vibe has disseminated back to the Cadet ranks. Their 2018 show design is on par with lower tier WC. They have a very dedicated staff (one taught SCV’s Ott-year hornlines), the director (an alum from the championship years in the 70’s) has a no-nonsense “In it to win” mind-set with a solid infrastructure behind him, etc. All I’m saying is, if there is a list of “Potential Threats” to Madison in 2018 hopefully they heed the warning sticker that reads, “Objects in Mirror are Closer Than They Appear.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den8uml Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, DCI Nerd Alert said: The activity has changed. Like it or not, what was considered "the best" in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s is no longer competitive - not "top 12" competitive. The Scouts went back to their roots in 2010 - traditional uniforms with a familiar show. The crowd loved it; they got 10th place. They held on to the uniforms for a couple more years and presented familiar drill moves that were signature "Madison Scouts" ... they inched up in placements ... and they were told, "Your effect is dated." They did a Jesus Christ Superstar show in 2016 in a Madison Scouts uniform... look where it got them competitively. The adjudicators (the ones who decide who is 1st, 6th, 10th, 15th, 22nd) have chosen not to reward traditional shows or shows that have a sense of historic-ness about them. I agree with a lot of your post, except historical moments come up in lots of shows. Blue devils do lots of it and they dominate. Historical doesn’t have to be 1980 drill or old school uniforms. Imo having staff that know what judges are looking for is the key to their success. Having swagger and confidence and talent like the scouts are known for gets you very far! But you need the staff to craft it for the judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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