Madison Scouts 2018

[mfrontz]

1 hour ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Yes, and I'm asking him what makes him such an expert to have such an opinion.

Gee, I can think of about five more polite ways you could have asked him why he thought Vanguard should have won in 88. Instead, you decided to demand he prove to you, an anonymous person yourself, his competence, experience and judgment. Not sure why you felt the need to go that route, especially when he just shared his own opinion on things that happened 30 years ago. But it seems to be important that people agree with you. 

[Slingerland]

So let's look at some numbers. Between 1972 (DCI's founding) and 1985, the year Cavaliers became competitive again after fifteen years of being non-factors, Scouts had an average placement of 4.9. Decidedly elite.

Starting in 1985 and going through 1999, a period when Cavaliers were very regularly top 3, Scouts were still averaging 5.3. Not really much of a change - and both corps were all-male, and competing for the same membership, but it didn't seem to hurt either.

But starting in 2000, and continuing through last year, Madison's average placement is 10.2. For kids who are marching today, Madison has been the Crossmen, competitively, for their lifetimes (no offense Bonesmen, but the numbers are what they are).

So what happened in 2000 that caused such a drastic sea change? There have been DCI Hall of Fame designers and managers working with Scouts in the 2000-2017 period (I mean, Jim Prime was arranging the book in the early 10's), so it's not like they didn't have access to good behind the scenes talent. Was there/is there a mindset in the organization that keeps them from being able to move in a way that checks the Box 5 requirements that the top 7 hit by the end of the season?

Given that there's been a fair amount of sturm and drang in this thread since last week, maybe this is an opportunity for thoughtful analysis of what changed (were all factors internal, or were there things out of the organization's control?), WHY it changed, and what a path toward renewed relevancy would look like.  If the Scouts faithful take the emotion out of it and look at the bigger picture (for ex: there was no Crown in the 90s, and Bluecoats were a 10th place corps back then), maybe there's a path forward indicated in the analysis.

I'm not a Scout alum, and have no dog in the fight: this is just in the interest of deepening the discussion in ways that can have value for every corps, at every level. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Slingerland

[queenanne_1536]

50 minutes ago, mfrontz said:

Gee, I can think of about five more polite ways you could have asked him why he thought Vanguard should have won in 88. Instead, you decided to demand he prove to you, an anonymous person yourself, his competence, experience and judgment. Not sure why you felt the need to go that route, especially when he just shared his own opinion on things that happened 30 years ago. But it seems to be important that people agree with you. 

Look it's pretty classless to make such a bold statement that two champions didn't deserve their championship. So yeah, I reacted. There's so many arm chair quarterbacks here acting like they are qualified to judge all captions at once. Well, no one is - not even the judges themselves. I don't care if people agree with me or not. You think someone didn't deserve something they worked so hard for - well shut up and keep it to yourself. Classless.

Edited July 8, 2018 by queenanne_1536

[Gantang]

3 hours ago, MotoSurfBass said:

Or... OR you could recognize that unsolicited comments on the attractiveness of a female member's attire....

1

He wrote, "their soloists", which implies the entire uniform choice made by management. I seem to have read a few reviews where people of both genders have said Madison's uniform (costume) is hideous. If one is always looking for something to be offended by they will inevitably find something regardless of the intended meaning. 

[Cappybara]

2 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Look it's pretty classless to make such a bold statement that two champions didn't deserve their championship. So yeah, I reacted. There's so many arm chair quarterbacks here acting like they are qualified to judge all captions at once. Well, no one is - not even the judges themselves. I don't care if people agree with me or not. You think someone didn't deserve something they worked so hard for - well shut up and keep it to yourself. Classless.

I think you’re being a little too sensitive about this. It’s not classless at all to think a different corps should’ve won. I’m a huge phantom homer and still think BD should’ve won in 2008. Doesn’t make it classless

Edited July 8, 2018 by Cappybara

[FlamMan]

5 hours ago, Mad75 said:

And, THIS is a typical "triggered" modern day knee-jerk PC response!  You're making quite a leap in determining the heart of this individuals comment.  But, I guess this is where we're at.

 

This.

[Brian Tuma]

4 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

Saying a costume is ugly is not misogynistic. And failing to agree with you does not perpetuate the culture. I let it go the first time but you apparently felt you needed to bring it up again to prove you were right or something. 

Except he didn’t say it was ugly. He said she needed to be in something “more attractive”. 

[FlamMan]

5 hours ago, MotoSurfBass said:

Or... OR you could recognize that unsolicited comments on the attractiveness of a female member's attire perpetuates the bravado of a male-dominated activity, the same type of thinking that allows people like George Hopkins to run rampant in the activity for decades without repercussions. 

Then again, this alumni base seems more intent on bragging about all the women they bagged on buses back in the day, and how this year's corps probably can't because their show design and uniforms are so UNMANLY. So it's probably just me asking too much for this thread to, just for once, NOT be a god ###### toxic wasteland...

A Man can say that he doesn't care for a Woman's attire...and not be a misogynist. I must have missed all of the Scout alumni bragging about all the women they bagged on buses back in the day. We did have quite the cult following though, right fellas? I'll go out on a limb and speculate that this years costume doesn't attract the Girls like the superman suit did. I just hope that the corps buses today aren't outfitted with a safe space room filled with stuffed animals.

Edited July 8, 2018 by FlamMan

[FlamMan]

On 7/6/2018 at 7:04 PM, swmstom said:

Madison alum page was taken down because many were being very vocal of their disproval and the admin felt it was becoming harmful.

Wow.

[queenanne_1536]

1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

I think you’re being a little too sensitive about this. It’s not classless at all to think a different corps should’ve won. I’m a huge phantom homer and still think BD should’ve won in 2008. Doesn’t make it classless

Fair enough. You're cool - I love reading what you have to say. Yes, of course, contested years it could have gone either way. Had SCV or BD won in '88, I wouldn't be arguing otherwise, same if Regiment won in '89, or BD in '08....to name a few. It just seemed like he was being a dick throwing that out there when it isn't even relevant to the discussion of the 2018 Scouts, and he was wrong. Madison was a powerhouse back in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Many great accomplishments. I still don't know why people have to vocalize it, and what's funny is I wonder if he was even at Arrowhead Stadium in '88 or saw it on a video years later. Seeing something live is completely different than on video. And lastly, I'll trust a panel of qualified judges over anyone on DCP any day. I don't ever see why judges would purposely screw a corps out of a title.

Edited July 8, 2018 by queenanne_1536