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Just now, jthomas666 said:

Hmmm.  Give the quality of PRs shows leading up to 2008, calling it a fluke seems more than just a bit of a stretch.

Yeah fluke isn't the right word for that, but I'm still of the opinion the judges let emotions cloud their judgments a little that night

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13 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Yeah fluke isn't the right word for that, but I'm still of the opinion the judges let emotions cloud their judgments a little that night

It was a magical performance that is for sure...Last finals I've attended...just before LOS was completed...

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27 minutes ago, BostonLUck said:

That is true; however, 2008 (and I'm going to be stoned for this), wasn't the "Champion" show we all want it to be. It was very obvious that PR wasn't strong enough in GE or Visual to win, and that it would require the Music Ensemble & Music Percussion judges to inflate Phantom's score (and sink BD's score) just enough to ensure a WIN (barely). Had all things been.... (my second stoning)... more accurate, 2008 was a solid 2nd, possibly 3rd place corps. Now -- HOLD ON -- I cried & screamed "I AM SPAAAAAARTACUS" with all you other goobers, so I loved that show too.

So, now that I'm bloody and bruised from all the soon to be hate, even JD knew 2008 was somewhat a fluke. 

But now, he's got a real good thing at SCV, he's got the Phantom staff, and all that West Coast talent. Not to mention, a corps that willing to go more edgy and modern. Phantom prefers... well...Dvorak, LOL. 

I hear everything you're saying, and I like your argument. However, everything quoted above is no more or less outlandish than the mention of JD Shaw returning to his alma mater if money were thrown his way. 

I guess I should put all of this another way... Whatever it is that would keep JD Shaw from being interested should be fixed. If it's Dan Farrell, that is theoretically fixed. If it's the corps director, a change should be made. If it's barking alums forcing the corps to pigeonhole itself too much, point to a 10th place finish and tell them helmets aren't the answer. Anything that would keep JD Shaw away from his alma mater would surely keep any other solid designer away - fix the foundation immediately. 

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1 hour ago, Liahona said:

The last time Phantom placed 10th was 1986 and before that 1975!  I just can't fathom them in this spot...just can't...

 

  I don't want to see them in this position either. If I compile some of my favorite 35 or so Drum Corps shows of all time, so many of Phantom Regiment's shows are to be found in my all time favorites Top 35.

Edited by BRASSO
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On 7/26/2018 at 8:57 PM, tim_brandt said:

This sounds bad on paper, but Mandarins are oozing with GE and have a great color guard. When I saw them at the Rose Bowl, I figured it was only a matter of time before they passed Regiment. Looks like it could be Saturday. Very exciting for those kids, they must be hyped.

It's the difference between a show that gets the crowd on their feet (I stood a few times) and has a ton of GE, vs. one that just kind of sits there and doesn't really have any big moments. Have you seen Mandarins, yet?

There's a lot of sentiment and circumstance in favor of the Mandarins. At first, there was all the talk and momentum behind them making World Class finals for the first time in their long history. Now, with their spot in the finals seemingly secure (I would say they have a much better than 50-50 shot at this point), the question has shifted to whether they break into the top 10.

Because there are only so many spots in finals and in the top 10, their ascendancy will come at someone else's expense. Last season, Madison Scouts barely held the Mandarins off for that 12th spot. But, with the two corps going in opposite directions, that was never going to hold up. And for the top 10 spot, unfortunately Phantom is now in that same position that Madison was in last year. Too bad, because as much as I like seeing the scrappy underdog ascend to a spot among the big dogs, Phantom was always one of the corps that I had the most respect for.

Edited by Woochifer
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2 minutes ago, Woochifer said:

There's a lot of sentiment and circumstance in favor of the Mandarins. At first, there was all the talk and momentum behind them making World Class finals for the first time in their long history. Now, with their spot in the finals seemingly secure (I would say they have a much better than 50-50 shot at this point), the question has shifted to whether they break into the top 10.

Because there are only so many spots in finals and in the top 10, their ascendancy will come at someone else's expense. Last season, Madison Scouts barely held the Mandarins off for that 12th spot. But, with the two corps going in opposite directions, that was never going to hold up. And for the top 10 spot, unfortunately Phantom is now in that same position that Madison was in last year. Too bad, because as much as I like seeing the scrappy underdog ascend to a spot among the big dogs, Phantom was always one of the corps that I had the most respect for.

Mandarins have momentum on their side and will surely have the benefit of the crowd in Indianapolis. You can say that doesn't matter, but I've been following drum corps for too long not to feel that intangible 'it' that happens with fan favorite drum corps and how it pushes them over the top and bleeds into all captions. '08 Regiment comes to mind.

I think that LOS crowd is gonna be hyping Mandarins and it's very difficult if not impossible to see this subtle PR show overcoming that. Just my opinion.

I see Mandies in 10th, we'll see how it shakes out.

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1 hour ago, kdaddy said:

While I don't disagree, the offseason just saw turnover in drill and guard design and program coordination. Sticking with bad design just for the sake of continuity probably isn't the answer, but perhaps whoever is making the hiring decisions isn't doing a good job in the first place. 

That said... what about the design staff for Academy? They're doing a Regiment-esque show with a much more effective visual design. Jaime Holly's primary gig is BD, but a PR side gig doesn't seem like a stretch. Michael Klesch may not be interested in PR (as far as I know, dismissed at Regiment after 00 and 01 in favor of JD Shaw). 

Would a guy like JD Shaw come back to Regiment as Program Coordinator and Brass Arranger for $50K? That's $500 from 100 people. If you find 99 others, I'll contribute.

I believe that ship has sailed. He and Paul gave us some legendary years. Time to find that magic, elsewhere. They have a great thing going w/ SCV, why would they want to leave that?

Or, even if they consulted on the side, it's their side gig. I think that we would want someone hungry and with a chip on their shoulder to use PR as their vehicle for drum corps badassery.

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36 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Looking at the Atlanta recap, Phantom was 10th or 11th in every single subcaption, except Percussion Content (9th) and Guard/Sub - Guard/Ach and Total Guard (15th), pushing them down to 12th in total Visual.  Right now, it's the Mandarins *really* low music scores that are keeping them from passing Phantom.

Mike

(That said, even coming in 10th in Guard wouldn't have caught Phantom up to BK.  :(  )

I think that Mandarins will compensate for this with GE. And, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I believe that GE carries into all captions, to some degree.

PR's show is just flat, I don't see the GE holding up with what the Mandarins are offering, but I could of course be wrong.

Hopefully, I am proven so!

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2 hours ago, jthomas666 said:

"the show design is holding them back."

Yep.

 

2 hours ago, jthomas666 said:

The Mandarins' talent is not on par with PR, but they have a brilliantly designed show and they are getting everything they can out of it.

And Yep.

Drum Corps has so much to do with staff and design. Without that, talent doesn't really matter much, does it?

Vice versa, if you have a kick ### / exciting design, it elevates the members. All about the show.

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I’ve always been curious, what if a corps design team let the mm’s play a larger role in the creation of a show concept? They could do things like have a brainstorming session with campers for possible show concepts/themes, present a number of ideas and vote on it, heck, even have a suggestions box (or email) all season! I feel like this could lead to a design in which the members are more committed to, while the staff is still able to refine it and keep it to a realistic level. 

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