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15 hours ago, kdaddy said:

Regiment finished behind Xmen, Mandarins, Academy, Colts, and Spirit according to one Music Analysis judge. That's good for 15th.

Sounds like someone cast their vote for change.

Edited by tim_brandt

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2 hours ago, EricS said:

unfortunately i think you are right.  Surely they will do something before they fall out of the top 12.

I said the same thing about Madison numerous times. I hope so. Regiment and Scouts were the first top corps I saw in '84 and I was so completely blown away. Very sad to me to see them on a free-fall.

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12 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

I said the same thing about Madison numerous times. I hope so. Regiment and Scouts were the first top corps I saw in '84 and I was so completely blown away. Very sad to me to see them on a free-fall.

Well it's certainly not the MMs fault.  They need a new staff

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not really much difference between being 11th or 12th is there? They made finals for another year but a close call to hopefully wake them up to design needs.

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11 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said:

I said the same thing about Madison numerous times. I hope so. Regiment and Scouts were the first top corps I saw in '84 and I was so completely blown away. Very sad to me to see them on a free-fall.

I think Phantom has a few things in its favor that Madison has not had for the past few years. Phantom folks I have spoken to in Indy say that while some criticism is warranted though perhaps a bit too strong, the corps is aware of its issues and will be looking to make changes. Personally I did not see the music as too problematic or the visuals for that matter, but the music and visuals did not fit together. That’s what happens when talented folks don’t share a vision. This is a problem new staff will not solve, but good leadership will solve.

Phantom does not have the infighting Madison seems to have, or at least the loud and vocal critics. Madison’s problem this year is not the show and the show may not even be a symptom of the problems, it may just be a show that did not work. The problems Madison is facing have been growing for at least five years now. They almost came to a head in 2016 when Madison placed 13th, but after a return to finals in 2017, all was forgotten. That’s not where Phantom is, or if it is, it’s well hidden. 

The biggest immediate challenges for Phantom are retaining veterans and recruitment. After FREE Players last night I was wiped out, so I did not stay for age outs, so I did not see how many automatic holes Phantom will need to fill. Then there is the natural movement from one corps to another. Phantom could be looking at a rookie heavy corps. However, this could be a beginning too. Crossmen have been counted out in the past due to rookies and it has not happened. BAC was rookie heavy in 2016, and when Cadets had issues not related to show design in 2017, ardent defenders pointed out that membership was young which made what they accomplished more impressive. 

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16 hours ago, Cappybara said:

Not a fan at all of Key Poulan's high school work but really love what he's done with the Mandarins 

Yes! I think he is very good at writing shows that sound modern, but are still playable by less mature ensembles.  It seems with Mandarins he can do much more intricate stuff.

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In my opinion, inherent member talent is less of a factor than designer and instructional staff talent and experience. If you have a staff that knows what they’re doing and can motivate and teach at the highest levels, the members can rise to amazing heights, regardless of their background. 

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11 minutes ago, Tim K said:

I think Phantom has a few things in its favor that Madison has not had for the past few years. Phantom folks I have spoken to in Indy say that while some criticism is warranted though perhaps a bit too strong, the corps is aware of its issues and will be looking to make changes. Personally I did not see the music as too problematic or the visuals for that matter, but the music and visuals did not fit together. That’s what happens when talented folks don’t share a vision. This is a problem new staff will not solve, but good leadership will solve.

Phantom does not have the infighting Madison seems to have, or at least the loud and vocal critics. Madison’s problem this year is not the show and the show may not even be a symptom of the problems, it may just be a show that did not work. The problems Madison is facing have been growing for at least five years now. They almost came to a head in 2016 when Madison placed 13th, but after a return to finals in 2017, all was forgotten. That’s not where Phantom is, or if it is, it’s well hidden. 

The biggest immediate challenges for Phantom are retaining veterans and recruitment. After FREE Players last night I was wiped out, so I did not stay for age outs, so I did not see how many automatic holes Phantom will need to fill. Then there is the natural movement from one corps to another. Phantom could be looking at a rookie heavy corps. However, this could be a beginning too. Crossmen have been counted out in the past due to rookies and it has not happened. BAC was rookie heavy in 2016, and when Cadets had issues not related to show design in 2017, ardent defenders pointed out that membership was young which made what they accomplished more impressive. 

Phantom was here before in 86.  Music may not be as problematic as visual but the music is an issue.  Please, go back to your helmets, they are awesome on the field.

I don't see a recruitment issue.  I don't see a talent issue (this is so overrated).  You spend untold hours working on (at most) 6-7 minutes ensemble playing.  If you are a teacher worth ANYTHING you should be able to get middle school kids to play the book (any corps) in that amount of practice.  The problem is design and teaching.  I have high hopes.  Phantom did the same thing from 86-87.  I would also add, stop trying to be a marching band and be the corps that you are.  SCV has it figured out.  Isn't it amazing what marching and playing do with minimal props?

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Concept and design. Weak unremarkable concept + poor design = 11th (so far) place.

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