garfield Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: it seems retention is trending upwards Really? Can you cite? (Not that I disbelieve you.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Prato Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 18 hours ago, Cleveland1 said: Legends last 990 was 2012 and theyve lost their tax exempt status after not filing a 990 since (you lose it after 3 years) same with surf. Both were (seemingly) running into trouble back then when they stopped filing by going into the negative on cash on hand. If they have filed its impossible to find... Theres no harm in taking a year off to stabilize the books, and if you cant then you shouldn't be in the business. If the glassmen did that in 2010/11 instead of just plowing through, they might either still be around or could actually be revived. Not every corps can manage a large amount of debt, like Boston. Jersey Surf's 501c3 has been reinstated effective 7/20/17. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) The cost of a Top 6 tour continues to climb, probably to something like $1.5-1.75M for 2017 although we only see numbers long after the fact when 990s get filed. This is far too high to be funded by tour fees and donations, so just like Bill Cook observed three decades ago, you must have other sources of income that can support the drum corps. The two most intriguing strategies out there today seem to be: - Inspire/Boston, like Star of Indiana, has set up other business whose profits help to fund the corps. (Aside: at one time it looked like more corps would go this route, e.g. Cadets Stagecoach. Why isn't this more popular?). They've also built up impressive corporate funding through their BoD. - BD's System Blue. Why take a sponsorship from the equipment manufacturer when you can become the equipment manufacturer? I think the criticism of Boston for "buying a championship" is inappropriate. Everyone would "buy a championship" if they could figure out how to get the money to do it! The activity only continues long term if more groups get savvier about how to financially sustain this very expensive activity. Edited August 14, 2017 by ShortAndFast 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said: - Aspire/Boston, like Star of Indiana, has set up other business whose profits help to fund the corps. (Aside: at one time it looked like more corps would go this route, e.g. Cadets Stagecoach. Why isn't this more popular?). They've also built up impressive corporate funding through their BoD. Very minor point, but for accuracy sake, its " Inspire " ( not " Aspire ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Brian Prato said: Jersey Surf's 501c3 has been reinstated effective 7/20/17. Nice, thank you. I was just going by old info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 hours ago, garfield said: Really? Can you cite? (Not that I disbelieve you.) specific stats? not i've officially seen and will comment on however...math works. if you're rolling over fans every 3 years, and yet attendance continues to grow each year, there's got to be retention. Are we at the 5 year point? probably not. I've actually seen a number of older fans starting to come back too, and that's a help.I know a set of brothers that marched with my Dad that haven't attended a show in eons....and went to finals this year and had a blast. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: specific stats? not i've officially seen and will comment on however...math works. if you're rolling over fans every 3 years, and yet attendance continues to grow each year, there's got to be retention. Are we at the 5 year point? probably not. I've actually seen a number of older fans starting to come back too, and that's a help.I know a set of brothers that marched with my Dad that haven't attended a show in eons....and went to finals this year and had a blast. The could also be adding more and more 3-year fans, right? More short-term fans. Is that That doesn't seem as healthy as holding on to the long-term fans or, better yet, developing more and more long-term fans. But the directors have resigned committed themselves that the youth market is their target, the actual users of the experience, and, as I hear it, are focused on giving the kids the performance experience they like to perform. But sorry, OT... Edited August 14, 2017 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, garfield said: The could also be adding more and more 3-year fans, right? More short-term fans. Is that as healthy as holding on to the long-term fans or, better yet, developing more and more long-term fans? The fluctuation in fan numbers, when compared to the actual available seats within entire pro stadiums, is really not that large of a percentage difference from year to year. So it appears to me that it really does not matter if the short-term fans are moving in and out over a three to five year cycle, or if some older fans leave while newer fans are added (my guess is some of both is going on). But again, we are talking about a small percentage change in seats sold compared to the entire capacity of the pro stadiums for this niche activity. Edited August 14, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 41 minutes ago, garfield said: The could also be adding more and more 3-year fans, right? More short-term fans. Is that as healthy as holding on to the long-term fans or, better yet, developing more and more long-term fans? there's an infinite number of 3 year fans tho...population trends dont support that being the sole cause. i think it's a combo of factors. and any smart business wants to retain while they add new customers. let's say only 1000 of the newbs stick around after 3 years.....thats better than what we were seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Stu said: The fluctuation in fan numbers, when compared to the actual available seats within entire pro stadiums, is really not that large of a percentage difference from year to year. So it appears to me that it really does not matter if the short-term fans are moving in and out over a three to five year cycle, or if some older fans leave while newer fans are added (my guess is some of both is going on). But again, we are talking about a small percentage change in seats sold compared to the entire capacity of the pro stadiums for this niche activity. True, but in financial numbers that impact the dollars received by each corps, it ain't chump-change either. The proof, in my eyes, that the activity is healthy will be in the expansion of the activity to beyond those now participating by growing organic organizations into competitive challengers. But it begins with a wholesale change in the attitude regarding "The Pie" from one of protecting turf to one of growing the number of players. Players pay tour fees and their "fans" buy show tickets. DCI's BoD needs to be willing to accept that the risk they take to dividing the pie is more than compensated by the pie getting bigger. That's a hard position to accept when you've been fighting death for 25 or 60 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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