Bobby L. Collins Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, snare_guy_83 said: If the music us so easy, then why don't you learn a book and post a video of you playing it here for all of us to see and hear I could certainly do that. I could post a video of me dancing like a four year-old for 9 minutes and then playing lip slurs into a vocoder for 3 minutes. That's essentially a drum corps show today. A point I made in another thread is that the overwhelming amount of talent required to secure a spot in a corps hornline is no longer even addressed during a performance. Any amount of virtuosity or chops is neglected or totally eschewed in favor of laying their horns down on the ground and performing ballet in skintight leotards while synthesizers play pre-recorded samples. That crap doesn't require a music education. It's like being a first round draft pick for an NFL team, but getting put on the cheerleader squad instead. It makes absolutely no sense to waste horn players' talent by making them color guard members who occasionally play a few notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasTuba Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said: I could certainly do that. I could post a video of me dancing like a four year-old for 9 minutes and then playing lip slurs into a vocoder for 3 minutes. That's essentially a drum corps show today. A point I made in another thread is that the overwhelming amount of talent required to secure a spot in a corps hornline is no longer even addressed during a performance. Any amount of virtuosity or chops is neglected or totally eschewed in favor of laying their horns down on the ground and performing ballet in skintight leotards while synthesizers play pre-recorded samples. That crap doesn't require a music education. It's like being a first round draft pick for an NFL team, but getting put on the cheerleader squad instead. It makes absolutely no sense to waste horn players' talent by making them color guard members who occasionally play a few notes. I think you're exaggerating just a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, DasTuba said: I think you're exaggerating just a little I wish I were. Some corps do it more (a lot more) than others, but they're the ones winning medals today, prompting everyone else to either sell out and jump on the bandwagon, or go home two days early. Caption awards are meaningless when they are now based upon who has the best sound system. Jim Ott would have never wanted that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilme861 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said: I wish I were. Some corps do it more (a lot more) than others, but they're the ones winning medals today, prompting everyone else to either sell out and jump on the bandwagon, or go home two days early. Caption awards are meaningless when they are now based upon who has the best sound system. Jim Ott would have never wanted that. I'm just curious which one(s) of the three medalists are you referring to exactly? Having been in the lots during Prelims and watching about half of the finalists brass lines there, I'm willing to bet a good amount of money that Jim Ott would have been extremely proud of every one of those hornlines. BTW, still getting a good chuckle with you thinking a sound system has any affect whatsoever on the Ott. Find me a brass judge that judges a show by the speakers instead of by the hornline and I'll gladly retract my statement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, wilme861 said: I'm just curious which one(s) of the three medalists are you referring to exactly? Having been in the lots during Prelims and watching about half of the finalists brass lines there, I'm willing to bet a good amount of money that Jim Ott would have been extremely proud of every one of those hornlines. BTW, still getting a good chuckle with you thinking a sound system has any affect whatsoever on the Ott. Find me a brass judge that judges a show by the speakers instead of by the hornline and I'll gladly retract my statement. How about instead you find me a judge that magically cannot hear the overbearing noise coming out of the speakers (which are dialed up so loud they can hear them in the press boxes with the windows shut) AND the monitors facing the corps (which are loud enough to hear clearly in the stands on the back sideline). They've got them turned up so loud that the judges (as well as the audience) can no longer discern the live from the amplified and/or enhanced. And yes, that includes the judges ON the field. People sitting in the front rows have figured that out already. How many times this year did people post how put off they were hearing horns on the left side of the field when they were all dancing on the right side? The whole thing is deceptive, it's disingenuous, and it's the exact opposite of everything Jim Ott worked to bring to drum corps. Those audio engineers are there to play both the judges and the audience like a fiddle. And they're doing that pretty darned well, when they're not forgetting to put batteries in their mic packs. Eventually, enough critical failures will occur during performances that the brighter light bulbs in the community will start to figure it out. But when that finally happens, I can guarantee the same ones on here regurgitating "well there's nothing you can do about it" will be saying the exact same thing.... Edited August 22, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 18 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said: That used to be true. It's not so true anymore though. Certainly great for dance education. Music, not so much. I'd really like to see a corps from the 70's even attempt the stuff Crown and BD are doing on the field. The base standard for corps in the top 12 and beyond has just been rising higher and higher every year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe mama Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said: How about instead you find me a judge that magically cannot hear the overbearing noise coming out of the speakers (which are dialed up so loud they can hear them in the press boxes with the windows shut) AND the monitors facing the corps (which are loud enough to hear clearly in the stands on the back sideline). They've got them turned up so loud that the judges (as well as the audience) can no longer discern the live from the amplified and/or enhanced. And yes, that includes the judges ON the field. People sitting in the front rows have figured that out already. How many times this year did people post how put off they were hearing horns on the left side of the field when they were all dancing on the right side? The whole thing is deceptive, it's disingenuous, and it's the exact opposite of everything Jim Ott worked to bring to drum corps. Those audio engineers are there to play both the judges and the audience like a fiddle. And they're doing that pretty darned well, when they're not forgetting to put batteries in their mic packs. Eventually, enough critical failures will occur during performances that the brighter light bulbs in the community will start to figure it out. But when that finally happens, I can guarantee the same ones on here regurgitating "well there's nothing you can do about it" will be saying the exact same thing.... As a member of Jim Ott's last hornline, I can tell you with certainty that he would absolutely love what lines like Crown and Blue Devils are doing today. He taught technique and musicality along with power and volume. And while I certainly agree that amplification is largely unnecessary and a huge distraction (IMO), today's lines far exceed anything from the 70's or 80's regardless of electronic enhancement. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 22 minutes ago, joe mama said: As a member of Jim Ott's last hornline, I can tell you with certainty that he would absolutely love what lines like Crown and Blue Devils are doing today. He taught technique and musicality along with power and volume. And while I certainly agree that amplification is largely unnecessary and a huge distraction (IMO), today's lines far exceed anything from the 70's or 80's regardless of electronic enhancement. Yeah I'm going to disagree with you there until doomsday, and I've already explained why all over the 1st two pages of threads here. Jim Ott's hornlines didn't need amps, nor did they need 9 minutes of dancing in order to perform with technique and musicality for 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 34 minutes ago, joe mama said: As a member of Jim Ott's last hornline, I can tell you with certainty that he would absolutely love what lines like Crown and Blue Devils are doing today. He taught technique and musicality along with power and volume. And while I certainly agree that amplification is largely unnecessary and a huge distraction (IMO), today's lines far exceed anything from the 70's or 80's regardless of electronic enhancement. 9 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: Yeah I'm going to disagree with you there until doomsday, and I've already explained why all over the 1st two pages of threads here. Jim Ott's hornlines didn't need amps, nor did they need 9 minutes of dancing in order to perform with technique and musicality for 3. Wow it's such a hard decision to decide whose opinion has more merit, DCP really makes you think sometimes 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe mama Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 29 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: Yeah I'm going to disagree with you there until doomsday, and I've already explained why all over the 1st two pages of threads here. Jim Ott's hornlines didn't need amps, nor did they need 9 minutes of dancing in order to perform with technique and musicality for 3. I guess I didn't make my point clearly enough. Jim would see the amps as unnecessary. The point is that these lines can absolutely stand on their own merit without electronics. In the overall picture however, I do not believe that these enhancements affect the winner of the Ott award. The best lines are still placing at the top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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