Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 45 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Again lets run the experiment of a judge viewing the Friday night performance knowing only the Saturday night scores and thinking they are viewing Saturday night. Would the guard judge agree with the scores, or would they even know that the outcome was different? If ya want to run the experiment 'again', what was the results the first time around? But what you propose here is more silly than what Christopher Reeve did as Superman when he flew so fast it made the world spin backwards!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: The entire concept of dci judging is kind of silly. The idea that these shows, which mostly remain virtually identical from one performance to the next, somehow magically, in lock step, increase in content potential every single night is goofy. Again, the goal is not to judge a specific night's competition but to arrive at the right medalists at the end of the season. As such, scoring is a wink and a nod anyway. If scoring is nothing more than a wink and a nod, then we can't exactly call it fair competition. Edited August 21, 2017 by ContraFart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, ContraFart said: If scoring is nothing more than a wink and a nod, then we can't exactly call it fair competition. Welcome to rationality, Young Grasshopper. Exactly. But we do because they say we should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 24 minutes ago, afd said: Does anyone take a break from Drum corps? I see people here ALL THE TIME. Some of the best drama happens in the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, garfield said: Some of the best drama happens in the off-season. Don't you really mean the off-season cone of silence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDCorno Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 8/19/2017 at 5:58 PM, ContraFart said: I guess my question when it comes to herd mentality is this: I have seen in certain captions a change in placement on finals night only, when the other corps was consistently winning all season including the previous 2 nights. I believe at the top levels of the activity the level of performance is so high, there is not much of a difference in consistency. For example SCV was winning the guard caption consistently. I did not go that far back, but at least the last 5 head to head match ups had them ahead by as little as .15 and as much as .3. How come all of a sudden BD wins guard on finals night by .3.....an entire half point change from one night to the next. I find it hard to believe that sort of change in performance could have happened. Same thing happened with a .4 change in vis proficiency. Could there be some mentality that will place a corps that was going to win anyway over another corps just because they are going to win even though the other corps was consistently better? Did you even bother to look at the actual scores, or did you pull your numbers out of your rear? Over the six shows leading into finals, BD got the nod four out of six, and an average margin of just under a tenth. Over time, I think that is somewhat reflective of the quality of the two groups, and relative strength. BD had the better guard "on paper", but SCV performed better at 2/3 of the shows that counted. Congrats to them on the caption win. DCI semis - SCV +.2 DCI prelims - SCV +.15 Buffalo TOC - BD +.15 Allentown (two night show, same judge) - BD +.15 Nightbeat TOC - BD +.1 DCI Southeast - BD +.4 Both very good color guards, consensus 1-2 all season, save a couple of shows. As with all judging, it's rank and rate. If one guard is better in terms of performance, and the judge isn't going half tenths, that can flip scores .2 in a single subcaption. If performance affects the content number, or maybe the judge has a different take on the 'subjective" content number, there is another .2. It's not all that hard to fathom. I was at Indy, and frankly, SCV outperformed BD's guard at both shows and deserved the caption win. Finals? Extraordinary performance by BD's guard (only dropless performance of the weekend, unless I missed something), and deserving of the caption win and spread. SCV very good at finals but not their best show of the weekend IMHO. We're talking humans here, and it's not the same person night to night, so expecting lockstep consistency actually seems to prefer a conspiratorial bent to the judging. Nothing to see here, move along. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 46 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: Truthfully, I do check out during the offseason. The first month after the end of the season is usually pretty engaging because we all try to evaluate whether the scoring system is working and what changes if any are happening in the power structure of the activity. After that I, out until show designs begin to be unveiled for the next season. I know but some are on here it seems 24 hrs. I thought I was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 12 hours ago, DeusExGreenMachina said: The larger the pool of judges, the better. The activity, within and without the DCI world, is replete with folks who are set in their ways. We could really use some new eyes and ears. It was worth digging through pages and pages of posts, just to find this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 hours ago, MikeRapp said: But DCI Teams do in fact challenge calls and judges. It's why judges suddenly don't show up to judge anymore. If they don't like their subjective opinions, they just don't hire them anymore. and now administrators can access recordings from anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Fred Windish said: I've tried to continue all the way through this discussion to pick-up from where I left off yesterday. I made it, but it was dizzying! Drum corps judging is like photography. The end result is merely a snapshot. Two highly trained photographers can shoot the same subject and will produce a different result. Particularly, if one photographer takes his image 24 hours later. But, even if both images are taken simultaneously, one lens is not perfectly matched to the other. They are apart, and directed from a different point of view. A 19.6 given by one photographer is as valid as a 19.1 assigned by another. Our photographers (judges) get things just about right, most of the time. That's all we should ever expect. Totally agree!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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