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On 11/1/2017 at 3:05 AM, garfield said:

Every org I've ever been involved with has a policy addressing this issue.

OP needs to understand who makes decisions in DCI (hint: it's not Dan Potter).

Straw men arguments on this subject are not acceptable.  Present your concerns directly to the BoD of the org you're referencing.

 

 

I'm 100% aware of how DCI actually works. Dan Potter and Tim Hinton were tagged to try to draw visibility, since petitions work via lots of public pressure.

It's not enough for one corps to get it right and others to get it wrong. It's also not enough for one corps to fire a problem staffer and that person just works at another corps.

So no. I'm not taking it to one single organization.

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1 hour ago, MikeD said:

 

From Black's Law Dictionary...

What Is Found in an FBI Background Check?

In their National Crime Information Center the FBI maintains records of arrests from state and local agencies. Most of the records are linked by fingerprints as every individual who is arrested is fingerprinted as part of the booking process. The NCIC is essentially a database of these records. In addition, the NCIC also tracks reports of missing persons and fugitives who are wanted by law enforcement.

 

18 minutes ago, PioneerWebmaster said:

This link explains the 21 databases that comprise NCIC.  The Interstate Identification Index, which contains automated criminal history record information, is accessible through the same network as NCIC.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ncic

One important thing to note:  The entry, modification, and removal of records are the responsibility of the agency that entered them.  In other words, NCIC is only as good as the data provided by law enforcement agencies nationwide.  Some law enforcement agencies do not have NCIC certification, or have lost it due to misuse or abuse.  Other states do not send all of their criminal data for various reasons.

I have been reading through all of the updated info concerning this on the various government websites. It appears that State participation in providing fingerprints of State crimes to the National Fingerprint File, which is the way the FBI accesses State criminal info, is apparently 'voluntary' not 'compulsary'. Which makes sense as it apples to the tenth amendment.

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On 11/1/2017 at 6:38 AM, garfield said:

The OP's concern can easily be addressed by contacting each drum corps' BoD and asking to see the policy.  Some corps, two I know of, post their policies on their websites.

DCI's mission is NOT to address this, and it's just this type of suggestion on which DCI pushes back very hard.  Of COURSE DCI, and its staff and volunteers, are in favor of the highest standards of assurance that the kids are not harmed.  

But it is the member corps, not DCI, that are responsible for having a policy that they actively follow.  Having DCI, the org, be some watch-dog for social policy is exactly not the type of central control that the member corps want to endow in DCI or its staff.

Each corps survives and thrives on their own, independently.  DCI's role is to organize the tour and promote the activity.  If the OP has a particular concern with a particular corps, it should be addressed first at the corps.  Not on DCP or in DCI.

Either the OP is attempting to create a movement for change of something that's not now a problem, or he/she is too lazy to do the work to contact the corps directly.

This is a black-eye post no matter how it's sliced.  I've never known a more progressive activity than performance art and it's true of DCI as well.

OP,  there's nothing to see.  The petition is for DCi and the member corps to do, WHAT, exactly?  And Dan Potter - what's his role in your contention for change?  

You clearly haven't thought this through and are likely simply a rabble-rouser trying to make smoke where there's no fire.

IMO, and with all due respect.

 

I totally, completely, 100% understand how the DCI BoD works.

DCI's mission is to promote and facilitate the activity. It is an extension of the will of the directors of the member corps. If those directors choose, they can require ALL corps to have a satisfactory policy on sexual harassment or be barred from participation.

You're partly right on one thing. I am trying to create a movement for change.

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On 11/1/2017 at 4:34 PM, garfield said:

See this is the problem.  What, exactly, is being objected to that justifies using an ounce of the very important energy of DCI staff and executives addressing a non-existent problem, the potential for which is addressed by the boards of directors of the individual corps, WHERE THE KIDS ARE!

 

So as a specific example, there was a corps competing in 2017 that hired an instructor who had surrendered their teaching license in a plea agreement after some misconduct.

Because of the nature of the plea, the individual isn't a registered sex offender. They were never convicted of any crime. But this individual can't teach in a public school anymore. But there is no such barrier to teaching in DCI.

I understand your frustration with my anonymity and my broad petition. I'm anonymous for reasons I think are easy to figure out. My petition is broad because I specifically wanted to avoid naming any names. Yes, there has been a lot of uproar about specific instructors lately. But I don't want to make the petition about one person or one corps. This has to be a team effort.

Here's an analogy. There were four major egg producers in the country at one point. Three of them followed all the laws and regulations to a T. Their products were great. One company didn't, and had a huge bacterial outbreak on their eggs.

There's no way to tell which farm your eggs came from at the grocery store. So people just stopped buying eggs. One business behaving badly hurt everyone else in the industry.

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On 11/3/2017 at 12:39 AM, Stu said:

 

 

 

 

Please place the following in context with the quoted posts above: There is currently a push to have a DCI show at the new stadium being built for the Raiders in Las Vegas.  Let’s say for the sake of this example that it is going to be a major DCI show like San Antonio, which means that all member corps will compete. And since it is Vegas, the corps might also decide to have a free-day for the performers.  What if many of the corps staff get together and realize that there is something completely legal down the road in the rural parts of NV.  So, as a treat, they take the 21 year-old members to one of 'the ranches', which again is legal in the State of Nevada.  They perform parts of their shows as entertainment and promotion, then they go into the rooms and, um. perform their private shows. Should DCI step in and say NO, not under our watch and banner, and hold the corps directors accountable?  Or, because it is legal, should DCI just turn away and not get involved with the social-policy decisions of the individual corps?

your argument here loses ground because they are 21.

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22 hours ago, Kamarag said:

 

Nope. Just discussed this with my sister, who is an FBI Special Agent.

i forgot about that. i remember you telling me that on our almost Canada road trip

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16 hours ago, garfield said:

My rationale is perfectly intact.  It's the emotions of people's viewpoints that has clouded the issue.

If the BoD believe that they need to centralize the surveillance of harassment policy, they will pass policies to make that so.

But think logically about what that actually means.  Have we even identified what's expected to be done?

The issue of the petition is credible, even if the petitioner's action is misguided. 

But what's really being accomplished is that a particular poster has succeeded in bringing up the saga of a single person, in a single corps, and gain a platform for his brand of retribution because he believes the court failed him.

I suppose there's nothing illegal about that.  But, as you asked me, does that mean that it should be done?

your rationale is flawed for the reasons i listed about what DCI does when they step in to address financial issues with corps.

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10 hours ago, JohnZ said:

all.

Apologies for taking so long to reopen the thread. we had determined that this subject was important enough to allow it to continue, provided of course that it stayed on topic and it didn't devolve ...unfortunately that didn't happen.

again I will appeal to you all to keep the discussion on topic, mind the community guidelines, and REPORT any questionable posts. 

carry on

 

 

 

thanks John. I applaud the admin team

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36 minutes ago, DCI Petitioner said:

Hi,

I basically don't use DCP because it can get really ugly around here and I have better things to do.

I'm anonymous so that I don't get a bunch of personal attacks and bitter remarks thrown at me. Case in point...

I know plenty about the topic. I know a corps executive director who had sex with an age-out. I know of male staff members who solicited nudes from male performers.

Doesn't matter if they were over 18. Sexual harassment is still unacceptable.

and i'll vouch for this person. 

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1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

your argument here loses ground because they are 21.

But my argument is that it is in fact 'legal'. And since Gar posted that to him as long as the law is followed, to him DCI should not step in and curtail behavior exhibited by the staff of the member corps as long as they are following the law. I am merely pointing out that to abide by that belief, he must also contend DCI should not step in if a legal situation like this occured.

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