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2018 Rules proposals


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22 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

well...yes and no on the sound. Grounded percussion! Bb brass! HUGE changes that raised a lot of grousing. " you can't carry it you can't play it!" "battery rests too much now!" still hear that. adding the 2nd and 3rd valves..."one step closer to band!" those changed the sound. "Bb isn't as loud!"

...

the goal, and I think Cesarios' project helped, was to get designers to think more business like...what do fans want. changing the sheets. But remember the corps write the sheets. So drum corps will always have this ebb and flow ...

The difference between the Bb change others like it versus electronics is how quickly (and well) the judges and their sheets caught up to the changes. I know you, Jeff, have been on that case from the start. When I was cutting slack for the poor use of electronics a decade ago, you were asking why the scores didn't reflect electronic performance too. I've caught up to you fully in the past year or two, in part because I think electronics have proven to be more opaque GE leverage but never a performance (or GE) liability. 

Something has to give. If it's not the way we use electronics, then it has to be the way they're judged.

HH

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21 minutes ago, glory said:

Not fair, Garfield (Jeff too?). 

More than half the DCI directors voted for electronics. Hopkins isn't that influential as evidenced by the many, many proposals he submits that aren't enacted. All the many directors who voted for electronics voted for it because they wanted it, not because Hopkins is so persuasive. Ascribing A&E to one person is a convenient canard, not the truth. We know better.

HH

the first proposals actually came from Mark Arnold with Blue Knights. Hop just made the most noise.

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19 minutes ago, glory said:

I used to work with the former editor-in-chief of the Boston Herald, which was a pretty big paper back in the day. He would tell the story of one of the paper's columnists who used to say when things were getting dull that he was going to write about drum corps because those people get upset by every little thing.

We know the people he's talking about. They might even be us.

HH

i have never seen activity that eats its own like drum corps

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10 minutes ago, glory said:

The difference between the Bb change others like it versus electronics is how quickly (and well) the judges and their sheets caught up to the changes. I know you, Jeff, have been on that case from the start. When I was cutting slack for the poor use of electronics a decade ago, you were asking why the scores didn't reflect electronic performance too. I've caught up to you fully in the past year or two, in part because I think electronics have proven to be more opaque GE leverage but never a performance (or GE) liability. 

Something has to give. If it's not the way we use electronics, then it has to be the way they're judged.

HH

kinda. percussion didnt truly catch up until an upstairs judge was brought back. brass is still judged only at field level. the biggest changes in the sheets were GE, and not necessarily what the sheets said, but how they were judged. that direction comes from......the corps.

 

the judging absolutely needs to change. judges need to be allowed to send messages through their number. I've been crucified doing it in the band world, but man, when i can't hear your winds over the amps, i'm not effected, nor should ensemble blow smoke up your ###. But job security is in not rocking the boat. luckily for me TOB can never have enough judges LOL

Edited by Jeff Ream
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27 minutes ago, glory said:

Not fair, Garfield (Jeff too?). 

More than half the DCI directors voted for electronics. Hopkins isn't that influential as evidenced by the many, many proposals he submits that aren't enacted. All the many directors who voted for electronics voted for it because they wanted it, not because Hopkins is so persuasive. Ascribing A&E to one person is a convenient canard, not the truth. We know better.

HH

Well, my point was that the only one among the list that changed the sound from the field is GH, not that he's the only one who voted to institute them.

You're right, WE know better.  I was around then, too.

 

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20 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

wow can mean different things to different people in different eras. The problem with fans is once they like what they like, there's an unwillingness to accept change.

Oh, now that's just generalizing to bolster a weak argument.  Fans can also accept, and dislike, change.  Like all those ears inside the 40's and up to the top of Sec 240 that were covered during 'Coats' show last year...

Dislike is not the same as unacceptable.

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10 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

kinda. percussion didnt truly catch up until an upstairs judge was brought back. brass is still judged only at field level. the biggest changes in the sheets were GE, and not necessarily what the sheets said, but how they were judged. that direction comes from......the corps.

 

the judging absolutely needs to change. judges need to be allowed to send messages through their number. I've been crucified doing it in the band world, but man, when i can't hear your winds over the amps, i'm not effected, nor should ensemble blow smoke up your ###. But job security is in not rocking the boat. luckily for me TOB can never have enough judges LOL

A very close friend of mine who judges USBands told me the exact same story.  Hop and Gino stood up for him, but the band directors were indignant that their scores were effected by sideline goo.  His answer was the same "If I can't hear the band, I can't judge the band!"

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16 minutes ago, garfield said:

Oh, now that's just generalizing to bolster a weak argument.  Fans can also accept, and dislike, change.  Like all those ears inside the 40's and up to the top of Sec 240 that were covered during 'Coats' show last year...

Dislike is not the same as unacceptable.

its actually true. is it all fans? no. but, after visiting an American Legion post last week for a birthday party, I heard old men grumbling about the changes in football and hickey. so it's not just our little world. would classic rock stations be as big as they are if fans stayed current with all of the pop stuff and only listened to that? Hell no. I couldn't even tell you what the number one song has been since maybe 1991, and pretty much my Sirius pre-sets don't play anything written after 1995, unless Stern plays it on his two channels. it's human nature. people like what they like, and different isn't good. watching our political world the last 2 years proves that point

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12 minutes ago, garfield said:

A very close friend of mine who judges USBands told me the exact same story.  Hop and Gino stood up for him, but the band directors were indignant that their scores were effected by sideline goo.  His answer was the same "If I can't hear the band, I can't judge the band!"

there's this mindset thats creeped in since the 70's that ones score should go up every single show out there. because of complaints from that and the directors that made them, have led more to any slotting conspiracy claims than actual judges made. They wanted it that way, and now, boom, they get it, and when they dont see the score they think their art deserves, its slotting.

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17 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

its actually true. is it all fans? no. but, after visiting an American Legion post last week for a birthday party, I heard old men grumbling about the changes in football and hickey. so it's not just our little world. would classic rock stations be as big as they are if fans stayed current with all of the pop stuff and only listened to that? Hell no. I couldn't even tell you what the number one song has been since maybe 1991, and pretty much my Sirius pre-sets don't play anything written after 1995, unless Stern plays it on his two channels. it's human nature. people like what they like, and different isn't good. watching our political world the last 2 years proves that point

I've heard that they have medicine for that now. See your corps medical team.:lle:

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