The Cadets and GH history of sexual abuse (news article)

[MisterA]

On 4/6/2018 at 1:31 AM, flugelswerebugels said:

Did you actually read the Inquirer article? If you don't accept that as fact you'll never accept anything as fact. Also, citing an instance where ONE individual made false accusations in comparison to this case where there are NINE CORROBORATED accusations is nonsense. Finally, he's not currently being found guilty of a crime - he's being found guilty of being a stinking albatross corpse around the neck of YEA and Cadets. Not jettisoning him would be suicidal.

Yes I did read the Inquirer article. But just because something is in print, doesn't make it true. I am very much looking forward to seeing the follow up article tomorrow. Maybe it will clear up a few more things. When I read the Inquirer article, some things just didn't make sense. I think it was the way the article was written.  I would hate to think 9 women would just make up stories like that, but then knowing how hated George Hopkins is from thousands, it could be a possibility that someone wanted him out and got this group of women together. And a lot of the posters on this thread make me question it even more. Within an hour or two of this thread starting, I saw everyone saying he is guilty, fire him, fire the BoD, fire people involved in YEA, have DCI force Cadets out of competition, have Cadets take a year or two off to rebuild, question DCI and possibly fire staff for what may have been floating around at the January meetings, etc. All of this from just one article, without many facts. I wish that any of these women within the statue of limitations would file charges against George Hopkins. The lawsuit should have nothing to do with Cadets organization, or with YEA, since it doesn't sound like any of these young women reported it to either organization. There is no way an organization can respond or react to something they probably have no knowledge of, and I did not see any mention of a single one of these women contacting anyone in the organization to complain against George Hopkins(until a couple of months ago) 

All I know is the article itself left some holes and unanswered questions. And I have always been taught that someone is innocent until proven guilty. Several people have sent me personal messages on here, and a couple to my facebook page as well about my post. I appreciated the one person who agreed with me about the article seeming incomplete on a couple of issues, and I respect the others who felt I was wrong in my opinion. I was accused of blaming the victims, not believing the victims, being a friend of Hopkins, and a few other things.

First off I am not blaming the victims. I know what I think I would have done had I been in any of those situations mentioned in the article. But unless it actually happens to you, and you are faced with needing the job for income, wanting to march another year with the organization, or any of the other scenarios, you don't actually know what you would actually do until the moment it happens to you. So whether or not we think the victims did the right thing by not coming forward sooner, it was THEIR right thing to do for them for whatever reasons they had. And it isn't that I don't believe the victims, but I have seen secondhand how sometimes a reported crime never happened, and it has ruined someones life before finding out it never happened. Not saying that is the case here by any means, but again it has happened. So while I do not believe Hopkins is innocent, I just can't say 100% for sure he is guilty, until I hear more information and details.

I think one of the things that concerns me, and this is probably the way the Inquirer handled it more than the victims stories, is the fact that many of them claimed they didn't come forward because they didn't want to hurt the organization. While I can understand that, the headlines I saw first on Facebook leading to the article was The Cadets Drum and Bugle Corps, A History Of Alleged Sexual Abuse. As far as I have heard so far, it is just George Hopkins who has been accused, not the organization as a whole, or even multiple people in the organization. Shouldn't the article have been titled George Hopkins, longtime director of Cadets D&BC accused of Sexual Abuse?

Again best wishes to Cadets, Cadets 2, and YEA as they struggle to sort out all the details as they approach the summer DCI/DCA schedule. And may all the alleged victims get all the love and support they need from family and friends.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Jaffo Nerr said:

Right. Which brings us to the question of board inaction. 

Which apparently obtained for decades, until they read about it in the paper 

IMO, here's my take...there was whispering...lots of whispering. But no solid proof. So, you're Dan....you call YEA and say "hey, i heard this rumor". And youget told "it's nothing, disgruntled alumni I dumped during the Carter Administration."

 

given the DCi rules...what do you do without more specific information? Not much. Their hands were tied.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, HBD said:

I was wondering when this was going to be mentioned. I wonder if THIS story will be told now since the cat is out of the bag.

especially how much more to the story there supposedly is

[Jeff Ream]

10 minutes ago, MisterA said:

Yes I did read the Inquirer article. But just because something is in print, doesn't make it true. I am very much looking forward to seeing the follow up article tomorrow. Maybe it will clear up a few more things. When I read the Inquirer article, some things just didn't make sense. I think it was the way the article was written.  I would hate to think 9 women would just make up stories like that, but then knowing how hated George Hopkins is from thousands, it could be a possibility that someone wanted him out and got this group of women together. And a lot of the posters on this thread make me question it even more. Within an hour or two of this thread starting, I saw everyone saying he is guilty, fire him, fire the BoD, fire people involved in YEA, have DCI force Cadets out of competition, have Cadets take a year or two off to rebuild, question DCI and possibly fire staff for what may have been floating around at the January meetings, etc. All of this from just one article, without many facts. I wish that any of these women within the statue of limitations would file charges against George Hopkins. The lawsuit should have nothing to do with Cadets organization, or with YEA, since it doesn't sound like any of these young women reported it to either organization. There is no way an organization can respond or react to something they probably have no knowledge of, and I did not see any mention of a single one of these women contacting anyone in the organization to complain against George Hopkins(until a couple of months ago) 

All I know is the article itself left some holes and unanswered questions. And I have always been taught that someone is innocent until proven guilty. Several people have sent me personal messages on here, and a couple to my facebook page as well about my post. I appreciated the one person who agreed with me about the article seeming incomplete on a couple of issues, and I respect the others who felt I was wrong in my opinion. I was accused of blaming the victims, not believing the victims, being a friend of Hopkins, and a few other things.

First off I am not blaming the victims. I know what I think I would have done had I been in any of those situations mentioned in the article. But unless it actually happens to you, and you are faced with needing the job for income, wanting to march another year with the organization, or any of the other scenarios, you don't actually know what you would actually do until the moment it happens to you. So whether or not we think the victims did the right thing by not coming forward sooner, it was THEIR right thing to do for them for whatever reasons they had. And it isn't that I don't believe the victims, but I have seen secondhand how sometimes a reported crime never happened, and it has ruined someones life before finding out it never happened. Not saying that is the case here by any means, but again it has happened. So while I do not believe Hopkins is innocent, I just can't say 100% for sure he is guilty, until I hear more information and details.

I think one of the things that concerns me, and this is probably the way the Inquirer handled it more than the victims stories, is the fact that many of them claimed they didn't come forward because they didn't want to hurt the organization. While I can understand that, the headlines I saw first on Facebook leading to the article was The Cadets Drum and Bugle Corps, A History Of Alleged Sexual Abuse. As far as I have heard so far, it is just George Hopkins who has been accused, not the organization as a whole, or even multiple people in the organization. Shouldn't the article have been titled George Hopkins, longtime director of Cadets D&BC accused of Sexual Abuse?

Again best wishes to Cadets, Cadets 2, and YEA as they struggle to sort out all the details as they approach the summer DCI/DCA schedule. And may all the alleged victims get all the love and support they need from family and friends.

here's the problems with your post:

 

several of us on here know some of them. We know their character. In fact one I know probably never even met some of the others. When word spread underground asking for people to come forward several people that never knew each other had similar stories. 

 

Here;s the other part....if you haven't been paying attention for at least 20 years, YEA is George and George is YEA. he made it that way. Puppet board that caved to his demands and whims, a constantly rotating cast of employees at the office...credit only to go to him, failure always went to others.

 

so since 1979, well really 82, George was the organization. 

[GUARDLING]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

here's the problems with your post:

 

several of us on here know some of them. We know their character. In fact one I know probably never even met some of the others. When word spread underground asking for people to come forward several people that never knew each other had similar stories. 

 

Here;s the other part....if you haven't been paying attention for at least 20 years, YEA is George and George is YEA. he made it that way. Puppet board that caved to his demands and whims, a constantly rotating cast of employees at the office...credit only to go to him, failure always went to others.

 

so since 1979, well really 82, George was the organization. 

3

Alot of this going around lately..lol

[general_tsos_chicken2]

18 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

especially how much more to the story there supposedly is

When he left cavaliers I heard it was for a a similar reason, but then he went to SCV and I figured it wasn't true. Now I wonder...

[FTNK]

22 minutes ago, general_tsos_chicken2 said:

When he left cavaliers I heard it was for a a similar reason, but then he went to SCV and I figured it wasn't true. Now I wonder...

have heard similar rumours

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, MisterA said:

. There is no way an organization can respond or react to something they probably have no knowledge of, and I did not see any mention of a single one of these women contacting anyone in the organization to complain against George Hopkins(until a couple of months ago) 

 

 The woman... one victim in particular mentioned this.... stated that there was no way forward for them, as in their opinion, George Hopkins ( one's words ) " controlled all the channels " both within the Cadets as well as YEA. To many outsiders, that certainly seems believable, as Hopkins himself selects each for the BOD. He recruits them himself. Even Cadeters say that they essentially rubber stamp all his decisions and policies. These 9 woman, spanned decades, some unknown to one another, only bonded by the Corps they marched with, and the apparent sexual assaults they claim he committed on them.

 As an aside, Mister A.... I'm assuming you are a male..... you appear a bit skeptical that these woman were assaulted, and apparently their motives. I ask you... are they asking for money ? Money can be a motivation for a lot of things. But as far as we know, they're not asking for a dime. Also, did you listen and watch the videos ? If so, did you see the anguish, the tears flowing ? What was that all about ? Acting ? Or was it genuine, believable, credible hurt and pain ?  Are you aware that originally, according to reports, there were apparently 13 woman that stated they were sexually abused in some manner ? 9 came forth to be interviewed on the record by the Philadelphia Inquirer.  Do you know what the mathamatical odds are that all 9 of these woman claiming sexual abuse ( one rape ) are lying ? Its approx. 40 trillion to 1.  How many sexual abuse incidents are too many for you  ?...7 ? ...  5 ? ...  3 ? ... how about 1 ? would that be too many for you ? Or maybe you just need a little more time to think this all thru a little more clearly... a little more time to rewatch the tape again of the woman in tears to determine if it was all just fake news, or if it was real woman, brave women, with a believable and credible , gutwretching  story of betrayal, pain, loss. If after you rewatch the tape, if their interviews did not seem credible and believable to you, then I  really don't know what more to tell you, my friend, other than I feel sorry for you.

Edited April 8, 2018 by BRASSO

[CACTSC]

24 minutes ago, general_tsos_chicken2 said:

When he left cavaliers I heard it was for a a similar reason, but then he went to SCV and I figured it wasn't true. Now I wonder...

Yep and therein lies a big problem for all involved. I’m continually amazed that this story has remained under wraps- sort of. One of those worst kept secrets type of thing. 

[N.E. Brigand]

1 hour ago, MisterA said:

I would hate to think 9 women would just make up stories like that, but then knowing how hated George Hopkins is from thousands, it could be a possibility that someone wanted him out and got this group of women together.

As I said earlier today, the dislike for Hopkins is so widespread and well-known that it will protect him in some people's eyes. Thank you for proving my point.

Here's the thing. As in most such cases, this matter is very unlikely to ever see a courtroom. You're probably going to have to make up your mind about Hopkins's culpability based on not much more than one or two articles, which like all writing anywhere is not going to answer all your questions.

Hopkins is not on trial. You don't have to decide "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Just ask yourself: if you had a kid in Cadets or Cadets2, and this article came out, and Hopkins was still there, would you let your kid stay in the corps?