Sign in to follow this  
Ediker

Visual scoring (Here, horsey horsey...)

Recommended Posts

:whip:

Okay, surely this topic has been done to death, but it still baffles me.  Why do the Blue Devils win Visual?

There is so much precision, innovation, difficulty, and entertainment in other top 5 corps' Visual programs.  Why in the world does Blue Devils' sluggish, listless, unimaginative, imprecise, and BORING Visual design win?  I watch BD wanting to love what I see, but always come away stumped ("That won Visual?").   It's criminal that they beat Crown, SCV, Bloo, and Cavies... whose shows would be entertaining even with the volume turned off. 

BD's colorguard is worthy of being counted among the best, but everything else, visually, is below average in composition/design among the rest of the top 12. 

The judges either don't understand what they're judging (and frightened to take a stand, give it to BD), or they're being paid off, or there is something arcane about Visual judging that I'm completely missing.  Please educate me.  For the record, while I am biased toward the east coast, I've had great love for BD, at different times, and would not call myself a hater.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of steps:

  1. Define what "visual" caption means, specifically what's being evaluated and how by the judges (beyond the flowery language that explains each caption - give specifics regarding why one corp's visual is rated higher than another's)
  2. Make sure judges are evaluating based on what they see and not what they want to see (peer reviews, training, testing out, etc.)
  3. Make transparent their ratings and notes to keep them honest and inform the paying public
  4. Give up on the first three ever happening and just enjoy the shows - it'll never be defined and adjudicated to everyone's (anyone's?) satisfaction
Edited by Rufus67
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think BD is worthy of winning visual and worthy of the titles they have won. I do, however, think there's a herd judging mentality in DCI. Don't believe, go to fromthepressbox.com and look at the first two shows of the 2011 season. The scores from the first show weren't annouced until after the second show. From the first to second show:

+ Crown went from 1st to 4th (score dropped over 4 points)

+ Cadets went from 4th to 2nd.

+ Cavies went from 2nd to 1st.

+ Blue Devils stayed in 3rd.

+ Phantom and Bluecoats flipped placements.

+ Vanguard and Blue Stars remained in 7th in 8th.

The judges judging both shows had no prior scores to base their judging on, so things really moved around. That's how it should be, especially in the early season. But, we see year after year placements barely moving over the course of the season. It is absurd that BD beat SCV by less than a point (often less than 0.25) at consecutive shows this year, and that SCV beat Crown by less than 0.5 at consecutive shows. 

My issue is I don't think the judges have a mind of their own, or the courage to judge based on that nights performance. It's quite boring, franky. No one is on every night, yet that is never really represented in the scores.

Edited by queenanne_1536
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ediker said:

:whip:

Okay, surely this topic has been done to death, but it still baffles me.  Why do the Blue Devils win Visual?

There is so much precision, innovation, difficulty, and entertainment in other top 5 corps' Visual programs.  Why in the world does Blue Devils' sluggish, listless, unimaginative, imprecise, and BORING Visual design win?  I watch BD wanting to love what I see, but always come away stumped ("That won Visual?").   It's criminal that they beat Crown, SCV, Bloo, and Cavies... whose shows would be entertaining even with the volume turned off. 

BD's colorguard is worthy of being counted among the best, but everything else, visually, is below average in composition/design among the rest of the top 12. 

The judges either don't understand what they're judging (and frightened to take a stand, give it to BD), or they're being paid off, or there is something arcane about Visual judging that I'm completely missing.  Please educate me.  For the record, while I am biased toward the east coast, I've had great love for BD, at different times, and would not call myself a hater.  

I don't have a definite answer, but I've seen some discussion about DCI placing a lot of weight on whether the presented content fits the  stated theme. One guess is that they're making sure the visual design matches the theme better than other corps. I've heard that argument raised pretty seriously and thoughtfully by knowledgeable individuals.

 

Another guess is how clean they are- or how they are perceived to be clean. That also tends to hold more weight than it necessarily should.

 

Finally, in terms of Visual Effect- does what you see match what you hear and vice versa? That's a basic Effect litmus test. If there are moments where this doesn't happen as much versus another group....

 

I'm not a visual maven, but those are basic ideas one can start from.

 

I know some of the agitation started with 'Tilt' versus 'Felliniesque', and in terms of the first and third thoughts I presented, well, BD had a deeper theme and far more subtle concepts and ideas that were beautifully and elegantly presented both musically and visually. Don;t get me wrong, when I saw 'Tilt', I screamed my guts out at the end, but I also get why it was 3rd versus BD. :satisfied:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I do sometimes question if they should have won visual proficiency (like last year), I completely disagree with the fact that they're boring. I've always thought they used color better than anyone else, and that was a big part of what made their visual so alive. They're also very smart and compact with their props, which they move around to stage different parts of the show. But yeah, I think the color thing plays a big part. Look at very monochromatic shows like Power of Ten and Jagged Line. Those shows didn't do so hot visually.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

I think BD is worthy of winning visual and worthy of the titles they have won. I do, however, think there's a herd judging mentality in DCI.

...we see year after year placements barely moving over the course of the season. It is absurd that BD beat SCV by less than a point (often less than 0.25) at consecutive shows this year, and that SCV beat Crown by less than 0.5 at consecutive shows. 

My issue is I don't think the judges have a mind of their own, or the courage to judge based on that nights performance. It's quite boring, franky. No one is on every night, yet that is never really represented in the scores.

Good points.  Yes, there is definitely some herd mentality.  I really want to appreciate what BD is doing so well, according the the judges.  If, while watching BD, I imagine that they're any other corps, it seems they're getting inflated Visual scores.  No one else could get away with such an ordinary design.  In comparison, there is so much originality coming from SCV, Cavies, Crown, and Bloo. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Brass Lover said:

While I do sometimes question if they should have won visual proficiency (like last year), I completely disagree with the fact that they're boring. I've always thought they used color better than anyone else, and that was a big part of what made their visual so alive. They're also very smart and compact with their props, which they move around to stage different parts of the show. But yeah, I think the color thing plays a big part. Look at very monochromatic shows like Power of Ten and Jagged Line. Those shows didn't do so hot visually.

 

I'll pay more attention to the color thing.  In terms of color schemes last year, BK and Cadets were my favorites.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

 No one is on every night, yet that is never really represented in the scores.

THIS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Ediker said:

Thank you, @BigW.  A Visual Analysis score sheet can probably shed some light.  Can anyone post one?

I don't think these have been revised much since 2012...BUT...I could be wrong.

http://issuu.com/drumcorpsinternational/docs/2012_judging_sheets_full_set/2?e=0

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.