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Update from the Philadelphia Inquirer


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1 hour ago, Liahona said:

I did not do the professional study...does the real number matter anyway? I WILL ALWAYS believe the victims until proven otherwise...

I agree that reported accusations of this nature must be taken seriously by law enforcement, and by those whom it's initially reported to. In fact, In PA, it's the law in schools that you must follow through and take it seriously. That's there to protect the victim- and well it should be. If someone came to me, you bet I go to the police.

 

That being said, keep in mind that the Constitution is clear that people are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law. There are also things in place to also protect the accused. They may be guilty as sin and done the crime... but they're entitled to an effective and vigorous defense if it ends up in court, for instance.

 

I'm not trying to be mean, personal, or crazy on this, I just get very worried when I think in the back of my mind that things like the Constitution get a bit overlooked.

 

In terms of the numbers and the statistics, the one that gobsmacks me is that according to the one study that was linked, an estimated 63 percent of sexual assaults are never reported to the police. That really makes me think and gives me pause. It just makes me very sad, to be honest. Even if it's inaccurate by a factor of 2, that's still pretty much a third of them.

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2 minutes ago, BigW said:

I agree that reported accusations of this nature must be taken seriously by law enforcement, and by those whom it's initially reported to. In fact, In PA, it's the law in schools that you must follow through and take it seriously. That's there to protect the victim- and well it should be. If someone came to me, you bet I go to the polic

I'm not trying to be mean, personal, or crazy on this, I just get very worried when I think in the back of my mind that things like the Constitution get a bit overlooked

All public educators in every state are mandatory reporters for acts of neglect or abuse towards minors.

Zero sections or amendments to the US Constitution make it illegal for a DCI corps/non-profit to hire George Hopkins right now.  Think about that, and look at what you just said. 

 

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4 hours ago, BigW said:

I think, in part. The Naval Aviation community is a bit like the Corps community in that it's fairly small and the degrees of separation are extremely slight. Everyone pretty much knows one another or someone they both know. Thinking hard because this was some time ago... yeah, the sheer idiocy that spun around the behavior of several of the active Naval Aviators at the convention really forced a lot of things to happen in the community, and happen fast regarding the inclusion of women into said community and also pressing for strict professional behavior and practices from said community.

I used to be an Associate Member of Tailhook for a couple of years after the scandal around 1995. Believe me, things straightened up quickly, they cleaned up their acts, and worked to make sure things were appropriate to the scope and mission of the association, not to be a place for tomfoolery. They had to if they wanted continued support from every corner, especially the active Naval Aviation component as well as their corporate sponsors. I'd say there's a parallel there, yes.

Thanks for those insights. I worked for an air show at the time, more or less by accident, and some of my coworkers, who had a longer history in the field, were pretty defensive about Tailhook, and "boys will be boys", and "these men are expected to give their lives for their country, and such people have needs", and so forth.

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44 minutes ago, Lance said:

I'm not being prescriptive, I'm being descriptive.  

Did Aristotle believe dragons existed?

/obscurantism

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I hope people keep digging... I think there is more in the works and some more names will be coming out.

I also am pretty confident there are at least a few so far unnamed persons with great reputations in DCI that regularly engage in sexual relations with corps members.

The questions here are, how many rocks are we willing to look under, because some people will definitely be laying low and hoping for this to blow over. As an activity, it is in our interest to look everywhere that we can and permanently change our culture; make it clear that certain actions are not welcome.

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4 hours ago, Lance said:

All public educators in every state are mandatory reporters for acts of neglect or abuse towards minors.

Zero sections or amendments to the US Constitution make it illegal for a DCI corps/non-profit to hire George Hopkins right now.  Think about that, and look at what you just said. 

 

Never mind misread this a bit....

PA changed law post Sandusky where educators have to report child abuse to law enforcement instead of just school authorities. 

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4 hours ago, Lance said:

All public educators in every state are mandatory reporters for acts of neglect or abuse towards minors.

Zero sections or amendments to the US Constitution make it illegal for a DCI corps/non-profit to hire George Hopkins right now.  Think about that, and look at what you just said. 

 

Not arguing that. But there is a difference between being convicted in the court of public opinion and the legal system. If you want to reference the whole constitutional issue, people also have the freedom to speak out against his potential hiring in the future. The press is free to report the facts.

 

Read carefully what exactly I was referencing. I think there may be a bit of misunderstanding of intent on my part. I do worry when someone is considered guilty before proven innocent/not guilty in terms of our legal system. I felt the post I reacted to was leaning that way whether I was correct or not in that assumption.

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19 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Never mind misread this a bit....

PA changed law post Sandusky where educators have to report child abuse to law enforcement instead of just school authorities. 

Yes- and there's a website and/or phone number where those reports are made IIRC. Whatever the reporter feels most comfortable in doing. My Landlord went through the whole process online to get certified on that and that's what he explained to me.

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4 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Thanks for those insights. I worked for an air show at the time, more or less by accident, and some of my coworkers, who had a longer history in the field, were pretty defensive about Tailhook, and "boys will be boys", and "these men are expected to give their lives for their country, and such people have needs", and so forth.

Yes, there was some serious pressure exacted on the organization from the Navy and the related defense industry sponsors of the association. Basically, if they wanted to continue having the support of the active Navy, and the industry... clean up your act. Otherwise, there will be no support from those ends for the convention (which would effectively kill the event), and no real support for the association.

 

Once it became what it should be and after working hard to regain trust from all directions for several years...  their Journal is fantastic if one likes Naval History, there's a lot of scholarship money given to kids whose parents are in the Navy in Aviation fields... the organization survived. Maybe there's a case study there for DCI to examine.

 

Sailors will be sailors. I've heard stuff from several of them that curled my hair, even after all the Corps parties I went to back when it was the wild frontier. But there's a line that was crossed, even by the standards extant in 1991.

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1 hour ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Never mind misread this a bit....

PA changed law post Sandusky where educators have to report child abuse to law enforcement instead of just school authorities. 

In most states, anything involving a minor, physical abuse, sexual abuse, or neglect has to be reported. Suspicion also has to be reported too. Child protective services and law enforcement would rather do the investigation than have the incident not reported. Regarding reporting it to school authorities, in Massachusetts, the person who is told of the abuse, suspects it, or notices it is the one responsible for reporting it. This should be done by first making a phone call to Department of Social Services who will either take the report or refer the caller to the police. This must be done with in 24 hours. A written report must be submitted within 48 hours. The recommendation is the call and written report are completed immediately. 

Regarding reporting in schools, teachers are mandated reporters. Administrators are as well. In many school systems, the actual report may be submitted by an administrator or where most abuse is physical or neglect, a nurse or guidance counselor may do the reporting. However, whoever notices or becomes aware of the abuse first is the one responsible for making sure the report is filed. The policy of the schools where I have had involvement is that the teacher reports and notifies administration. It is always recommended the person makes the report and it be witnessed by another person. If the teacher is uncomfortable, an administrator may make the report, but the teacher must be present. Documentation is also required. The teacher simply writes “I informed so and so of a situation regarding X, and it was reported to DSS, Y from DSS took the report, and the teacher and administrator sign the document.

 

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