garfield Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Agree and really feel it is up to corps board to decide how this affects the corps now and in the future. Next years numbers might be interesting. My question as an outsider is what have the members and families have been told. A big “with hind sight this was a mistake sorry” would go a long way for me. Are we certain that his BoD wasn't involved in the original decision and that, since then, X-men's successes have happened despite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Agree and really feel it is up to corps board to decide how this affects the corps now and in the future. Next years numbers might be interesting. My question as an outsider is what have the members and families have been told. A big “with hind sight this was a mistake sorry” would go a long way for me. Except the hindsight shows that his decision to hire Moody wasn't wrong. We sit here and hope that Fred "can change" and we want and desire that change to not (so some think) destroy his career. But the same is not extended to Moody, apparently, despite his now 6-year record of no incidents. Curious. Maybe, just maybe, the fear was overdone and Fred was correct in his assessment of Moody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, garfield said: Are we certain that his BoD wasn't involved in the original decision and that, since then, X-men's successes have happened despite? What changed is not if the board knew. What changed is now potential members and their families know and can plan accordingly. And what do you base your hiring Moody was not wrong comment? Point you keep ignoring is membersand parents were not told. If it was so right why not tell them and let them decide Edited May 21, 2018 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) I have to interject one point that seems to be curiously missing from all the discussion over the Moody/Morrison issue; Throughout the Hopkins saga, and before, the majority of people here (and elsewhere) railed against the Cadets' Board as merely being a rubber-stamp for Hopkins and never offering the necessary checks and balances on the corps director's power [especially if that director might have done something that damages the corps, its members or staff]. But it appears that in Crossmen's case, the corp director is himself the chairman of the corps' Board of Directors (called the Executive Director in this case), and his wife is the Treasurer. Forgetting the entire Moody issue ... isn't this EXACTLY the situation which we all recognized as a contributing factor to the Hopkins situation - no real oversight, check, or balance, on the corps director? Is it being ignored because people like Morrison but didn't like Hopkins? Isn't this something that DCI policy should be addressing as minimum corporate requirements for it members, having Boards with are not merely rubber-stamps and check-writers? Edited May 21, 2018 by Eleran 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, garfield said: Except the hindsight shows that his decision to hire Moody wasn't wrong. We sit here and hope that Fred "can change" and we want and desire that change to not (so some think) destroy his career. But the same is not extended to Moody, apparently, despite his now 6-year record of no incidents. Curious. Maybe, just maybe, the fear was overdone and Fred was correct in his assessment of Moody. Just because the 2 are connected is no reason to conflate them. I stated this previously in a furiously-paced and locked thread. I am restating it here because I suspect it was buried quickly as the thread dropped off the board. Also with confidence that my post was not the reason that thread was locked. Recidivism rates of adults that violate legal sexual boundaries is significantly high. High enough that we have learned that second chances in high risk scenarios (and high stakes scenarios) are simply not worth it. Period. The fact that he made it 6 years with no lawbreaking incidents is irrelevant to Fred's assignment in charge of a youth organization. Forgive all you want. Witness and embrace them within your church if you feel like it. Get him a job at VP Racing Fuels. But putting him back into this environment is not the definition of forgiveness. It does neither him nor potential victims any good. As someone with real experience and training on enacting Safety Plans around potential sexual predators I urge everyone to understand something. Untrained people, good leaders or not, have no business trying to engage in such processes. It is a specialized area and you have no idea what you don't know. It is incredibly naive and dangerous. Also, in regards to a safety plan, broad and far-reaching communication of the predator's past is at the core of it's success. We have seen played out in many subcultures and communities that have attempted to self police with no real skills or knowledge on how to do it. Edited May 21, 2018 by mingusmonk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, garfield said: Interesting. Some probably say that it was his integrity that prompted him to hire Moody in the first place. You're not wrong, Jeff. Your conviction in your beliefs is high. i get the second chance thing. Lord knows in life we all get them, some deserved. but on this issue shutting down concerns brought forward and not publicly disclosing it...yeah, thats a huge black mark. Why? Because as the article showed, Joel continued some shady behaviors, Fred shut down any concerns being raised, and never once was upfront with the parents or kids about it, even 6 years before #metoo. i said before the road to hell is often paved with good intentions. Well, this lack of action surely straightens that road out for a quick fly downstairs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, garfield said: Are we certain that his BoD wasn't involved in the original decision and that, since then, X-men's successes have happened despite? then IMO the board should be held to what I said about Fred. They are complicit as well in not insisting parents and students be informed. or do they rubber stamp what Fred wants like YEA did? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I also want to make clear, even though I am critical of Fred's poor decision, I am not necessarily calling for his head. If I was a stakeholder of Crossmen, there are some questions I would want answered before I knew what I would suggest. But these are questions I don't expect to see hashed out in public. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Eleran said: I have to interject one point that seems to be curiously missing from all the discussion over the Moody/Morrison issue; Throughout the Hopkins saga, and before, the majority of people here (and elsewhere) railed against the Cadets' Board as merely being a rubber-stamp for Hopkins and never offering the necessary checks and balances on the corps director's power [especially if that director might have done something that damages the corps, its members or staff]. But it appears that in Crossmen's case, the corp director is himself the chairman of the corps' Board of Directors (called the Executive Director in this case), and his wife is the Treasurer. Forgetting the entire Moody issue ... isn't this EXACTLY the situation which we all recognized as a contributing factor to the Hopkins situation - no real oversight, check, or balance, on the corps director? Is it being ignored because people like Morrison but didn't like Hopkins? Isn't this something that DCI policy should be addressing as minimum corporate requirements for it members, having Boards with are not merely rubber-stamps and check-writers? Fred Morrison Executive/Corps Director Fred.Morrison@Crossmen.org Board of Directors Mark Chambers Vice President Caitlin Hall Board Member David McIlvoy Board Member Maureen Morrison Treasurer Mark Purnell Board Member John Schock Board Member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said: i get the second chance thing. Lord knows in life we all get them, some deserved. but on this issue shutting down concerns brought forward and not publicly disclosing it...yeah, thats a huge black mark. Why? Because as the article showed, Joel continued some shady behaviors, Fred shut down any concerns being raised, and never once was upfront with the parents or kids about it, even 6 years before #metoo. i said before the road to hell is often paved with good intentions. Well, this lack of action surely straightens that road out for a quick fly downstairs 6 years before #metoo is a lifetime in this particular topic, sad to say. As for Moody's subsequent behavior with the staff member(s), nothing was ever brought to Morrison's attention, for whatever reasons. Hopefully it is now easier for those harassed to step forward, and also hopefully people making decisions and leading organizations are learning and changing as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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