Madison Scouts survey: all male v.s. Co ed

[HockeyDad]

7 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

I think it’s possible. I don’t think it’s reasonable to project Madison to be a medalist again if they continue to believe that they must be one gender. Like it or not, dci is moving quickly to a theatrical design paradigm. Imo you can’t eliminate half of the best marching members from Day 1 and expect to compete with 16+ Male and female world class corps.

Cavaliers disprove this theory. It's about design and leadership. The talent will come if you have that in place. 

[MikeRapp]

11 hours ago, ThirdValvesAreForWimps said:

Leave Madison alone.  Their alumni should  decide this — and nobody else.  

Never said they shouldn’t.

[MikeD]

11 hours ago, ThirdValvesAreForWimps said:

Leave Madison alone.  Their alumni should  decide this — and nobody else.  

Actually, the primary people to decide this are those who manage the corps...the administrative team. Hopefully they would take input from a variety of sources, including alumni, but it is managements job  to manage the corps. 

 

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

Cavaliers disprove this theory. It's about design and leadership. The talent will come if you have that in place. 

yup. Mirror mirror on the wall, whats really the reason for the fall

[BigW]

On 6/20/2018 at 4:44 PM, chadwick_michael said:

From the 2016 Scout member perspective, Tradition actually ranked toward the bottom. Youth members overwhelmingly seem to care most about Brotherhood/Family Culture, Show Design, and Educational Experience. (2016 Scouts poll results here).

One could make a very powerful argument that Brotherhood/Family Culture indeed is the cornerstone of Tradition at the Scouts- at least it's a big part of it from talking to the alumni I've worked with and marched with over many years.

[BigW]

On 6/19/2018 at 10:06 PM, FlamMan said:

The changes in general scouting organizations are ridiculous. When did everyone become angry at everything?

I'll tell you why.

 

When the fit hit the shan with Scouting's abuse scandals, it opened the door to that sweeping change wholesale. Then, when said changes were made, it honked off other groups (read some christian churches) who have dropped their support. Ironically, changes appear to have been made mostly to affect real change in an organization with real problems- but also to make certain sectors happy who really don't and really never have supported scouting. The sectors that still did...well, they have a problem now. Yah can't please everyone, especially in this polarized environment.

 

Further making this fascinating to me is this- and people seem to be glossing over this- The Corps used to be an Explorer Post at the end of their affiliation with scouting, and the Explorers been co-ed for many, many years before everything went crazy- I believe even when the corps was still affiliated. My guess is they may have removed themselves in part from said affiliation to remove themselves from potential legal challenges to their all-male status that they'd most certainly lose.

 

 

[chadwick_michael]

1 hour ago, BigW said:

One could make a very powerful argument that Brotherhood/Family Culture indeed is the cornerstone of Tradition at the Scouts- at least it's a big part of it from talking to the alumni I've worked with and marched with over many years.

Members could choose multiple traits, and the survey displayed the answer options in random order. If the above theory were true, members would have chosen Tradition in similar numbers to Brotherhood.

The results weren't even close—83% of respondents chose Brotherhood/Family Culture, while only 57% chose Tradition.

[MikeRapp]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

Actually, the primary people to decide this are those who manage the corps...the administrative team. Hopefully they would take input from a variety of sources, including alumni, but it is managements job  to manage the corps. 

 

Which continues to be why Scouts are where they are. Again, I’m not saying where they are is bad. But last season was indicative of a leadership issue imo. Scouts doing mad max screamed of, we are an all male corps and we are going to reinvent ourselves as an all male corps. It felt forced beyond forced. I so wanted them to be competitive last year, and I will always have a soft spot for Scouts. But I’m ready for them to move forward, to be something new that doesn’t always have to be so obviously tied to their past.

I feel the same way about Phantom. Both corps seem petrified to do something completely new. They try, but then always seem to have those on the nose decisions that give it away. Bluecoats, Boston, these are corps that have reinvented themselves. They respect their history by remaining relevant today, not by continuing to remind everyone where they used to be.

Alumni are crucial to the success of any NFP, but if alumni dictate direction you are ultimately doomed to be a follower. Kids have short memories. They don’t really care about history. They want to create their own history. 

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, MikeRapp said:

I feel the same way about Phantom (and Troopers). Both corps seem petrified to do something completely new. They try, but then always seem to have those on the nose decisions that give it away. Bluecoats, Boston, these are corps that have reinvented themselves. They respect their history by remaining relevant today, not by continuing to remind everyone where they used to be.

Alumni are crucial to the success of any NFP, but if alumni dictate direction you are ultimately doomed to be a follower. Kids have short memories. They don’t really care about history. They want to create their own history. 

Added my .02 there.

Mike

[BigW]

1 hour ago, chadwick_michael said:

Members could choose multiple traits, and the survey displayed the answer options in random order. If the above theory were true, members would have chosen Tradition in similar numbers to Brotherhood.

The results weren't even close—83% of respondents chose Brotherhood/Family Culture, while only 57% chose Tradition.

Interesting! Though I believe there is  a certain correlation between the two- where the circles intersect as it were. Tradition does mean and imply other things as well. I can see why there's an 83 versus 57 difference the more I think about it. There are more physical/material  concepts associated with the second, which are worthless without the spiritual/social underpinnings of the first.