Jump to content

Madison Scouts survey: all male v.s. Co ed


Madison Scouts survey  

212 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Madison Scouts remain all male or go Co ed?

    • Remain all male
      141
    • Go Co ed
      71


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Jake W. said:

Right....but as a few other posters have mentioned in this thread, Gen Zers have truly thrown traditional notions of masculinity, feminity, gender roles, and gender itself out the window. Honestly, that ship has sailed. I imagine the vast majority of Gen Z kids would have classified the Scouts’ show last year as aggressive, tribal, primitive, and raw, as opposed to masculine or testosterone-heavy. Not a single lady in that generation would have had trouble getting deep into that role. Same with Cavies last year —- if anyone thinks the female performers of this generation couldn’t have easily assumed the bravado & swagger of that show and fit in seemlessly, said person really just hasn’t spent enough time working with Gen Z kids. Conversely, it’s rare to see a scholastic guard in WGI nowadays (and never, ever a world class guard in DCI) that doesn’t have male performers comfortably exploring more traditionally-feminine forms of movements and dance. Seriously, the gender role ship has sailed for this generation, and they don’t give a hoot about what’s supposed to be or isn’t supposed to be.

On a separate note, but still to the point of this thread, tradition for tradition’s sake is empty and useless. “It’s just the way we’ve always done it” has never been a valid response in any field. However, sound & logical procedures and policies take on extra strength when they are also closely-held traditions. So, I suppose Scouts need to strip away the tradition and figure out if the reason they’re holding on to an all-male membership is a solid and good policy regardless of tradition —— if they discover it is, then tradition will only strengthen the policy. If they find it has no meaning once the tradition aspect is removed, then it doesn’t serve the organization anymore and needs to go.

I hear what you are saying. I guess I was thinking if a more legal defense of remaining all male or going coed. But it brings up an interesting point. Would Gen Z'ers accept Robert De Niro as Wonder Women? Or Vivian Leigh as Rhett Butler? Would Brokeback Mountain been the same movie if one of the leads had been female? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Should the Madison Scouts opt to become a coed corps; I would hope they do it because they believe that's what's best for the corps and not because it's the "politically correct" thing to do. Younger Millenials and Gen Z youth love to make anything and everything some sort of pc saga. 

Edited by corps8294
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, skevinp said:

What was the compelling reason before, and what happened to it?

A proper answer to that question should really come from someone involved with the corps BITD.  I am not affiliated with the corps, so I cannot say with specificity what they found "compelling".

The basis is that the corps was originally affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America, which only took boys as members.  A number of youth activities, schools, etc. back in 1938 felt there were compelling reasons to offer programs to youth of separate genders.  Society is different in 2018, and some organizations now hold different views.  In fact, even the BSA has admitted girls to programs, and removed the word "boy" from their name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 in the future, there will be several factors that will go into how a marcher is selected to win a position to march both these fine Corps of the Madison Scouts and The Cavaliers. But Gender will not be one of the determining factors that will not have them win a spot in line. Its inevitable, imo, as society changes.. Its no longer a question of " if " they'll do it. Its only a matter now of " when ", they'll do so. I posted this on DCP a couple of seasons back too. Part of me would like to see both these Corps remain as is. But I realize that time marches on.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Jake W. said:

Right....but as a few other posters have mentioned in this thread, Gen Zers have truly thrown traditional notions of masculinity, feminity, gender roles, and gender itself out the window. Honestly, that ship has sailed. I imagine the vast majority of Gen Z kids would have classified the Scouts’ show last year as aggressive, tribal, primitive, and raw, as opposed to masculine or testosterone-heavy. Not a single lady in that generation would have had trouble getting deep into that role. Same with Cavies last year —- if anyone thinks the female performers of this generation couldn’t have easily assumed the bravado & swagger of that show and fit in seemlessly, said person really just hasn’t spent enough time working with Gen Z kids. Conversely, it’s rare to see a scholastic guard in WGI nowadays (and never, ever a world class guard in DCI) that doesn’t have male performers comfortably exploring more traditionally-feminine forms of movements and dance. Seriously, the gender role ship has sailed for this generation, and they don’t give a hoot about what’s supposed to be or isn’t supposed to be.

On a separate note, but still to the point of this thread, tradition for tradition’s sake is empty and useless. “It’s just the way we’ve always done it” has never been a valid response in any field. However, sound & logical procedures and policies take on extra strength when they are also closely-held traditions. So, I suppose Scouts need to strip away the tradition and figure out if the reason they’re holding on to an all-male membership is a solid and good policy regardless of tradition —— if they discover it is, then tradition will only strengthen the policy. If they find it has no meaning once the tradition aspect is removed, then it doesn’t serve the organization anymore and needs to go.

That's a pretty broad generalization. Not sure I agree with it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/2/2018 at 1:37 AM, Jake W. said:

On a separate note, but still to the point of this thread, tradition for tradition’s sake is empty and useless. “It’s just the way we’ve always done it” has never been a valid response in any field. However, sound & logical procedures and policies take on extra strength when they are also closely-held traditions. So, I suppose Scouts need to strip away the tradition and figure out if the reason they’re holding on to an all-male membership is a solid and good policy regardless of tradition —— if they discover it is, then tradition will only strengthen the policy. If they find it has no meaning once the tradition aspect is removed, then it doesn’t serve the organization anymore and needs to go.

1

That about sums it up perfectly. Well said!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/2/2018 at 9:48 AM, HockeyDad said:

That's a pretty broad generalization. Not sure I agree with it. 

As a generalization it is accurate, however when it comes to young people today, I find that while they embrace generalizations overall, they also take pains to let you know they are not part of the generalization. Something I enjoy about young people today is they stress their individually. 

However, when it comes to last year’s Madison show, I heard lots of folks describe it as tribal, primitive, and raw, people of all age groups. I did not hear one person describe it as masculine or testosterone driven. Regarding Cavies show, it would have lost the edge and humor of it were not all male and turned into a silly battle of the sexes show.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/1/2018 at 1:14 PM, Cadevilina Crown said:

Wasn’t there an article a year ago about a transgender MM who wanted to march Madison but couldn’t because the organization wouldn’t allow it?

EDIT: I found it in case anyone wants to read it again. https://medium.com/@chadwickmichael/bias-in-the-brotherhood-ee75dead4a6d

Thanks for sharing this article.  I really appreciate it. Mad props to the Blue Stars and their staff! Way to step up!

 

As a cisgender alumnus, I am disheartened that the Scouts would use such a limiting and oppressive definition such as "birth sex" to determine an applicants gender, and, in doing so, prevented someone (and/or some people) from marching who wanted too and could have been a great talent/asset to the corps.  I am also extremely irked that this is the first I heard of this.  It shows a very narrow minded approach that leads towards nothing but bigotry.  It also does not really surprise me given the current administration, of which I am no fan.  However, I do find it admirable that the corps seems to be working with groups that can help educate staff and members about this, and is thinking about expanding its educational outreach to more than just cisgender males.  It is also somewhat ironic to me that the organization used to be co-ed in a way when it had control over the Capitolaires who later merged with the Junior Scouts to form Capital Sound.  Not to mention Southward.  Coeducational activities are clearly not foreign to Madison as an organization, and if the insurance issue is no longer in play as some have mentioned, this is, to me, a no-brainer.  But, I am in a graduate program that researches and teaches about these kinds of issues, and I am being trained to be a faculty member in this field of study, so I definitely think a little differently (and potentially deeper) about these kinds of things than the average marching member may, especially if they are cisgendered and societally privileged in other ways like I am. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...