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1 minute ago, BRASSO said:

 Tonite's West Coast scores should be in pretty soon  for those who can't help themselves but compare scores from around the contry and then get all up in arms over them, or giddy as a child depending on the scores from 1,000-  3,000 miles away with different mix of Corps, judges, weather conditions, performance levels, field conditions, and dozen of other variables that more sensible people tell us not to engage in... but like an addict, we are addicted to doing impossible score comparisons, when the scores come in nightly from different time zones.

 So... hold on to tonites score comparison's until we get the West Coast scores  in an hour or less. This way we can compare Boston with the Blue Devils better, the Cavaliers with the Blue Devils better, Bluecoats with SCV better, and Crown with BD, SCV,  better... or maybe Spirit of Atlanta and Mandarins... or.... pick the corps.... Until we get these scores, we won't know if there is inflation, deflation, or conflagulation going on when we do our score comparison's when the Corps are thousands of miles apart yet.

I believe I made the nod to " this is not an exact science" and "they all get on the same field eventually". My original point was to poke at the age old cry that the West inflates scores. If anyone is inflating this year...it's the East. Over and out!  :-) 

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39 minutes ago, Leftrph said:

Can you really “compare” scores when corps haven’t competed against one another?

 No. Of course not. Most of us know this both intuitively as well as intelligently too. But people oftentimes engage in behaviors we know are not very wise, nor a smart thing to do. So we do this EVERY year.. compare scores from around the country. But this silliness is not confined to just us fans. DCI, DCP,  Flo, and other outlets utilized these scores to rank the Corps... by the minute too!.  We can literally watch a Corps go from 1st to 4th in rankings, while their marchers are asleep on gym floors, or in Corps busses rolling down the highway.... lol!. If we step back a bit, we have to admit it really is sort of comical to watch such silly behaviors. But the word " fan " itself, is historically derived from the word... " fanatic ". And fanatics oftentimes do engage in fanatical behaviors that are neither intelligent, nor rational. Thus us !

Edited by BRASSO
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You can't even really reliably compare shows and figure scores as one spectator... even as one with "eyes and ears".

The judges are going to... probably... call this a horse race with 4 or 5... maybe 6 contenders splitting captions.

But it's hard to make a credible argument for wide spread discrepancies based on audio-video samples, recorded nights apart, and with any lack of bias or wishful thinking.

There's no way to know how they stack up... Accept to answer the question:

Are BD and Crown gold medal material on their own standing?  If so... Then that should be an indication of how they will all mesh together.

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34 minutes ago, Leftrph said:

Can you really “compare” scores when corps haven’t competed against one another?

No. You can't.  And this happens every single year.

Raw scores do not matter, head-to-head spreads do.

Raw scores do not matter, head-to-head spreads do.

Scoring in the marching arts is not a static scale.  A "95" one year is not identical to a "95" in a different year, for example.  Scores per show can fluctuate due to contest dynamics (and do, every time).  Some of those dynamics include, but are not limited to:

- The number of corps competing

- The number of corps *within the same competitive tier* competing head to head

- The gap between tier groups at the contest

Raw scores do not matter, head-to-head spreads do.

It doesn't matter what happens on opposite coasts at completely different shows.  Scores are only as good as a single night in a true head-to-head.  Until everyone comes together, comparing scores across the country is less than meaningless.

Raw scores do not matter, head-to-head spreads do.

Please stop comparing scores at different shows.  They are not comparable.  They never have been in this system and they never will be.

Raw scores do not matter, head-to-head spreads do.

(just so you know, Leftph, I'm not targeting you with this, just making a general statement about scoring)

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As an example, people used to talk about "West Coast Inflation".  Back in the early 2000s it was *sort of* true, but there was a reason for it.

In the early 2000s, BD and SCV on the West coast were on an island unto themselves.  No mid-tier competitors were on the west coast at that time.  Even BK was out of the top 12 the first few years of the 2000s, and everyone else was fighting to make Semi-Finals.

That meant that, early season, the gap between BD and SCV, and everyone else at those shows, was *massive*.  With no mid-tier group to help anchor the numbers, judges had to award spreads as best they could when jumping from one to the other.  And at shows where SCV or BD was there without the other, it was even more unwieldy.  You could see gaps of 10-15 points between BD/SCV and the next group down.

That wasn't the case out East/Mid-West.  There were more corps within the same competitive tiers, and a diverse amount spread throughout each tier, so spreads were easier to manage, generally, show-to-show.

Now, of course, it isn't really that way because the West coast has gained corps in the mid-tier of late (BK is back in finals, Academy usually knocks at the door, Mandarins have been threatening the past few years, etc.), so its not really "a thing" anymore.

But you still get shows where you're missing a competitive tier, and that can make numbers a little interesting.  Honestly it's best just to wait for the first major regional.  You can get an idea of where each corps falls as far as competitive tier before then, but not how they will shake out within those tiers until a head-to-head happens. 

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14 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

 

Are BD and Crown gold medal material on their own standing?  If so... Then that should be an indication of how they will all mesh together.

 The Head to Head competitions trump everything in terms of value, imo

 What also can be helpful,  and useful information are what I'd call " trend lines ". In other words, don't look at scores from a nite, or even 2 nites, 3 nites. Look at the spreads between competing Corps over a series of at least a week or more. From looking at this, one can see what Corps seem to be making positive strides ahead in their mix of Corps, and which are not.  These trend lines can be informative to us in some respects, imo.

Edited by BRASSO

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Funny quirk on DCI's own "Rankings" list: right now, the corps in first place, based on either its most recent score or the average of its three most recent scores, is:

 

 

 

 

Oregon Crusaders.

(Although they're tied with Bluecoats for the most recent score.)

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it matters at San Antonio when everyone is together

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1 hour ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Funny quirk on DCI's own "Rankings" list: right now, the corps in first place, based on either its most recent score or the average of its three most recent scores, is:

 

 

 

 

Oregon Crusaders.

(Although they're tied with Bluecoats for the most recent score.)

And according to that Jersey Surf and Seattle Cascades have made some GREAT strides before even competing too! (I'm assuming DCI's site is using their last three scores from 2017 in its algorithm)

Edited by brassboy

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