Trends, art and DCI scoring

[MikeRapp]

I’m wondering if we are emerging into an era in which DCI will need to reconsider scoring methodology based on the potential diversity of what is on the field. I am beginning to see show design patterns that all high scoring shows use that really don’t work with their show concept. DCI had to do this for visual scoring when guard became its own thing. But music still remains largely the same, and I think it’s because corps can’t go outside of the norm without being punished for it in the sheets.

If a corps did a true jazz show, and I mean a real jazz music show, it would get hammered in scoring.

Thoughts on this? 

[Spatzzz]

I guess I don't see how the current criteria in anyway punishes a group for its creative choices. Just look at the variety of creative choices made in the top 12 this year!! It still comes down to the basics of show design including production value, development into and out of impact moments, variety and pacing through time and adherence to the concept through time. This of course is an oversimplification as there are many more details that are looked at across all captions. 

I guess I'd be interested to hear what these 'design patterns' you are talking about are that you think don't work with a show concept. Not saying it isn't the case because corps certainly vary in their success in the implementation of their ideas but I don't think that is an issue of the judging criteria as much as an issue with the design of the programs themselves. Every single show on the field this summer has flaws, some just far fewer than others.

Using your example if a corps did a REAL jazz show and used musical selections that had all the same tempo, same emotional value, same range and variety of musical expression through time than YES it would get hammered and rightfully so. But that would be the case regardless of musical or visual style presented.

Corps have around 12 minutes to take the audience on a musical and visual emotional journey. The construction and performance of the journey is what matters not the style.

As with all things YMMV

[MikeN]

Honestly, I think Bluecoats are doing a true jazz show, probably the first we've seen in the top ranks in a while. 

Genesis went with a fairly solid "throwback" jazz show this year, and while their progress seems a bit flat from last year, I think visual plays in to that as well. 

In OC, Guardians are playing a pretty diverse array of stuff on top of classical - Kanye, Kendrick Lamar, Kesha.  So far, we've actually gotten pretty good GE scores, and our brass scores, hand on heart, feel more tied to our performance that night than our repertoire. 

I know it's just a handful of examples, but I think there really is some musical diversity out there in modern DCI, and it's actually helping corps who want to stray a bit.

Mike

[JAZZER]

When I saw Genesis in STL last month, I said to myself "that reminds me of Madison BITD".

I'd LOVE to hear some more of ECJ '98/'99 with modern design in mind, and don't think it would get as hammered on the sheets as you might think. Of course, my ECJ examples would require some stunning soloist  side note: and NOT parked on the back set with a microphone.............I digress.

I'd say the ECJ examples also are closer IMO to true jazz show, maybe purely by the arrangements than Session 44, but Bloo's full ensemble shouts are certainly jaw-dropping every moment they unleash them!!!

Edited August 1, 2018 by JAZZER

[Cadevilina Crown]

DCI's new Artistic Director, Lee Carlson, has said that one of his missions while in this role is to update the judging sheet to reflect the increasing diversification and high levels of performance across the entire activity (the sheet in its current form has remained largely the same since 2000). He's even said a couple of times, via the Field Pass podcasts, "Judges are no longer comparing apples to oranges, they're comparing Volkswagens to avocados."

What you're referring to in your OP is a fair assessment - the "concerto-style" (fast-slow-fast, or in this case opener-production number-ballad-closer) musical format has been used regularly in all the marching arts for decades. I'll also echo what posters have said above in that there is also a ton of stylistic diversity in source music choices, and starting recently we've had an increase in the number of shows that have unique pacing elements to them. Look at shows like Academy 2016, Cadets 2017, Mandarins this year. Opinions on these shows aside, they are some great examples of fresh pacing that breaks away from the normal opener-ballad-closer mold.

All this, of course, is food for thought. I have my own opinions on how I could change the judging system, but I don't think they'd be all that relevant to the OP.

[HockeyDad]

A trend I was thinking about is that the invented and now mandatory (if you want box 5) concept of "simultaneous demand" and "environmental demand" (or is that the same thing?) have produced 11 minutes of MMs running around the field contorting their bodies into all manner of awkward looking body positions, which almost always seem totally out of context with the music and mood. It seems completely unnecessary. Was the genesis of this Star of Indiana back in the early '90's?  It has really developed into something quite awkward looking. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by HockeyDad

[Spatzzz]

I think Mandarins is a great example of upsetting the norm when it comes to pacing as someone said above. They are certainly taking a huge risk with the beginning of the show and it is paying off for them with the GE judges. (Now the ballad on the other hand is one of those flaws I was speaking of above IMO but that is a discussion for another thread)

I think this year more than many we are seeing a wide diversity in pacing choices and corps taking risk by breaking outside the norm and getting credit for it. I think the judges should actually be applauded for their open attitude to the wide variety of design choices being presented to them.

[IllianaLancerContra]

What if a Corps did a show based on a relatively obscure North American musical art form - 1970s Drum & Bugle Corps.  Said Corps goes all-in with G bugles, Mangione charts, and carried all percussion instruments.   Guard work & drill is 1970s style as well.  

And lets say the executed & sold the show well.

I strongly suspect that the judges would dump all over this approach to art

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

I’m wondering if we are emerging into an era in which DCI will need to reconsider scoring methodology based on the potential diversity of what is on the field. I am beginning to see show design patterns that all high scoring shows use that really don’t work with their show concept. DCI had to do this for visual scoring when guard became its own thing. But music still remains largely the same, and I think it’s because corps can’t go outside of the norm without being punished for it in the sheets.

If a corps did a true jazz show, and I mean a real jazz music show, it would get hammered in scoring.

Thoughts on this? 

see Bloo and BD. lots of jazz, and doing quite well

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Cadevilina Crown said:

DCI's new Artistic Director, Lee Carlson, has said that one of his missions while in this role is to update the judging sheet to reflect the increasing diversification and high levels of performance across the entire activity (the sheet in its current form has remained largely the same since 2000). He's even said a couple of times, via the Field Pass podcasts, "Judges are no longer comparing apples to oranges, they're comparing Volkswagens to avocados."

What you're referring to in your OP is a fair assessment - the "concerto-style" (fast-slow-fast, or in this case opener-production number-ballad-closer) musical format has been used regularly in all the marching arts for decades. I'll also echo what posters have said above in that there is also a ton of stylistic diversity in source music choices, and starting recently we've had an increase in the number of shows that have unique pacing elements to them. Look at shows like Academy 2016, Cadets 2017, Mandarins this year. Opinions on these shows aside, they are some great examples of fresh pacing that breaks away from the normal opener-ballad-closer mold.

All this, of course, is food for thought. I have my own opinions on how I could change the judging system, but I don't think they'd be all that relevant to the OP.

the sheets changed a lot 5 years ago