What is Innovative about Babylon?

[NakedEye]

21 minutes ago, Tommeee said:

When I watch the bit where Greg Lagola explains the design of the uniforms, that's where it loses me.  The justification they use for choosing a design like that is crazy.  They don't even fit right.  If he had done something like that when he was with the Cadets, it would have been roundly ridiculed.

Are the uniforms innovative?  Are they artistic?  Are they popular?  I don't think so.  But who knows, 20 years from now, I might look back at them and love them!

I love love love this topic!!!  It's forcing me to question MYSELF!  Do I want to see innovation, or do I want to see OLD SCHOOL?

The uniform thing has been interesting  to me all season because Lagola created both the SCV and Bluecoats looks, and they couldn't be more different. 

With Bluecoats it is a total home run and he pulled off 154 unique identities that hold together as a unit seamlessly for visual statements and are also individually tailored so well that every single person looks fantastic in them. That I find truly innovative. Individualized outfits have long been used in guard, first largely in Cadets, but to have it work on such a scale is so impressive. Just fantastic work.

With SCV, I understand the intent. (Not so much how it relates to "Babylon," but that is a matter of interpretation.) But an outfit that can be considered urban, cool, and egdy gets a lot of its power from being one of the only ones like it on the street, surrounded by a sea of more conventional clothing. Of course the person in the baggy sweatshirt, mesh sleeves and saggy pants is going to be a real statement. 

But when you dress 100+ people in the same thing, with all their various heights, widths, shapes, etc., then it is impossible not to keep noticing how very differently they fit on each one (and they fit very differently). With me it is such a distraction that it, at times, overshadows anything they are doing. I do wish he had been able to do a more individualized urban look that was customized to the various body shapes. Even with the same color scheme, but specifically tailored cuts.

I don't feel like these are going to be a high water mark in uniform/costume design, but we'll see how time treats them.

[Bluzes]

18 hours ago, Cappybara said:

I've seen comments throughout the season calling SCV's show this year innovative and ahead of its time. 

Hi, Cappy just checked in across from LOS. They remodeled real nice (to good for Corps Fan). Two large PC's for Guests just changed screensavers to Beast & Nighthawks. Will keep up all week.

Babylon is full of GE especially GE1, Bloo usually grabs GE2. GE, as we know, is hard to pin down. SCV's horn show grabs my attention the most this year. In content and execution, that is what will win it alone Then the guard takes over and grabs your attention. Drums SCV have consistently done well any differences there are small and as we learned from Crown can be worked around. They very well may win w/o any caption award but don't see them losing GE.

SCV's book is a deep dive into jazz which is not what they are known for but are pulling it off better than the old hats. The Ballad is the icing on the cake, just wonderful. The ending could change and make the show even better. GE is in the eye of the beholder this time I think the judges got it right. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Bluzes

[TRacer]

9 hours ago, tedrick said:

Vanguard's Babylon...is not life-affirming as most Vanguard shows have been in the past decade - it's just loud, loud and louder.

We no longer live in a life-affirming society.    

After decades of being on the receiving end, SCV finally decided to stand up and say, “Enough!”, then set out on a thus-far successful campaign to utterly club the competition into submission. As an alum, it’s about time. 

Thursday, Friday and Saturday can’t come soon enough. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by TRacer

[queenanne_1536]

What I also like about Babylon is that I see something new every time. I watched video of those show 50+ times since Stanford and I see something new or interesting every time. When the new closer went in I was watching the high camera and when the horline all comes forward, I thought, "What? Where'd the props go?" They were there, I just didn't notice them. I also think that is innovative. The props, as I said above, are so well integrated that it's almost as if they aren't even there. Of course, they are there, but I don't think about the props the way I do with other corps.

[DCIDADDIO]

3 hours ago, skevinp said:

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but it is interesting BD's show didn't have that effect for you, as it literally involves putting a bunch a pieces together to create a work of art.  

That’s a puzzle. The art is at the end and just a rendering of another’s creation. The music,  mood and movement is the focus. Just like SCV, and BDcorno’s comment about the Tower of Babel being 6-8 feet high. That’s like saying there wasn’t a painter with a brush in the BD show. 

[DCIDADDIO]

10 hours ago, tedrick said:

Vanguard's Babylon leaves me cold - it's a continuation of old snake eyes from last season - anger is it's main emotion - 

I do like the clever use of the platforms - that is neat - and the baritone soloist -

the show is not life-affirming as most Vanguard shows have been in the past decade - it's just loud loud and louder -

but what the hell, if Boston can't win this year, SCV has earned it the title this year and they have waited a long time.

There’s always this: 

The World Chess Championship 2018 is an upcoming chess match between the reigning world champion since 2013, Magnus Carlsen, and challenger Fabiano Caruana to determine the World Chess Champion. The 12-game match, organized by FIDE and its commercial partner Agon, will be played in London between 9 and 28 November 2018.^[1][2]

Not quite as loud. Enjoy! 

[year1buick]

4 hours ago, skevinp said:

Well you can't really answer a question about innovation without knowing what innovation is, and it a term that is sometimes used in ambiguous ways, so I don't see the harm in his sharing a definition.  

That’s a fair point.

[BDCorno]

57 minutes ago, DCIDADDIO said:

That’s a puzzle. The art is at the end and just a rendering of another’s creation. The music,  mood and movement is the focus. Just like SCV, and BDcorno’s comment about the Tower of Babel being 6-8 feet high. That’s like saying there wasn’t a painter with a brush in the BD show. 

You see, there you go. Talking about SCV's show IS NOT TALKING ABOUT BD'S SHOW, MAKING A COMPARISON OR OTHERWISE DOING ANYTHING BUT ANALYZING THE SHOW. I've judged for many years, and I'm breaking it down from a judge's standpoint. Obviously you take my analysis as an offense, and attempt to insult BD as some sort of retaliation. Well, it's DCP after all. Should expect this. Buh bye. 

[PamahoNow]

4 hours ago, BDCorno said:

I understand your position, and also that of BD79-82 that you responded to. At the same time, this is the conundrum with SCV's show. [disclaimer: not lobbying for anything here, just pointing something out] It can certainly stand on its own with just music and visual and GE. BUT....watch the SCV-produced videos that have the designers talking about "Babylon" and the deep, emotional design that "they've built into the show". It's wonderfully constructed, but after watching the video, I was actually less positive about the show. Are they "shoe horning" a persona, a theme, and intent on a show that should just be a show of music and visual? Is it, or would it be wrong for any corps to just put a show out there without a name, theme or other "deeper meaning"? I don't think so, but since you assign all this meaning and theme to the show, shouldn't the corps and designers be taken to task if they're not projecting that when you watch? Phil Madden (at Atlanta) was the only person that seemed to pick up on this a bit, and had them third in GE visual rep. I don't get the Tower of Babel out of a 6-8 foot high prop...get a bit of an "urban" feel with the close quarters show design that they use throughout, and if someone didn't tell you what the nets were about, I don't think anyone here could honestly say what the intent or message was without prior explanation. Sooooo...I see what you're saying, Stu...but I think there is a theme being crammed into a show that shouldn't have to be. Since they did, they actually ARE making those demands, and if you're not getting it, then aren't they failing at the communication? I agree, I love the show and you can watch it on a non-literal level and enjoy it...but that's not how you're supposed to watch it. According to their designers. 

What if this show was called "Stages" instead or "Babylon".  Would it have been any different?

[DCIDADDIO]

20 minutes ago, BDCorno said:

You see, there you go. Talking about SCV's show IS NOT TALKING ABOUT BD'S SHOW, MAKING A COMPARISON OR OTHERWISE DOING ANYTHING BUT ANALYZING THE SHOW. I've judged for many years, and I'm breaking it down from a judge's standpoint. Obviously you take my analysis as an offense, and attempt to insult BD as some sort of retaliation. Well, it's DCP after all. Should expect this. Buh bye. 

Not insulting BD at all. They are the best drum corps in the land and they have proved it 18 times! They know what they are doing and i’m Sure you know that too. But your Babel tower reference was flawed and my corellary although anecdotal, was accurate. We can just agree that there are different strokes for different folks.