2019 Madison Scouts!

[HockeyDad]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

You fail to take into consideration some other factors:

For years Madison was part of the big 6/7....and now others have upped their game and there's no guaranteed slot. So you want to use history but history changes, as Cadets can attest to. In fact, the only corps that can consistently lay claim to being top 3 in DCI's history is BD.

 

now has recent competitive success been a roll of the dice? yes. Part of it is the Madison culture itself......do we appease alumni, the current system, or walk that fine line of doing both? You cannot lay all of that on their feet. Several part of it yes, but not all of it. 

 

 

I hear you but.... when a ship runs aground, the commanding officer takes the blame. Rightly. Wrongly. It doesn't matter. In most cases I think it's probably not the captain's fault at all. Nonetheless he/she takes the accountability. That's just the way it is. Similarly if a drum corps finishes well below expectations, is it entirely because of the executive director and / or director?  No. Probably not. But they need to take responsibility for it. That's where the buck stops, fair or not fair. 

[tesmusic]

12 minutes ago, Mad75 said:

Tesmusic, You're either being purposely misleading, disingenuous, or you simply do not have your facts in check.  As much as you continue to laud the praises and pull out the pom-poms for CK and DP and herald their "ruler-ship", It's been communicated that their roles have been changed/curtailed.  CK is NO LONGER in charge of the product on the field for the Scouts...And, this is hopefully the change that has been desperately required!  I realize this is probably a hard pill for you to swallow...But, the Scouts deserve success, not sub par leaders.

You clearly misread my point. I stated that CK and DP are still in their positions, I made no mention of their duties, simply pointed out that their titles are the same. That is a fact. I also pointed out that the design and instructional staff have been overhauled. Also a fact.

I further commented that beating the dead horse of calling for their ouster is absurd because they have not been removed from their titles for the upcoming season, since they were not. Feel free to read into my posts all you would like, though.

 

[rpbobcat]

2 hours ago, Tim K said:

Most organizations should have some kind of charter or governing document that gives the director authority and the board authority. While a board having too much authority or a director having too much authority should be avoided and a checks and balances system should be in place, it’s not uncommon for one to be more powerful than another. In general it seems as if you have three major issues regarding directors: they get too powerful and their authority is expanded as times goes on, a second is the director has been in too long and becomes ineffective and perhaps even a danger, and a third is plain incompetence. With boards, the problems tend to be they are simply rubber stamps, they yield authority but have no idea what they are doing even if their intentions are good, or they have too much control of the purse strings high can lead to power issues. 

With drum corps, an observation I have made, especially in the past ten years or so when I’ve been watching and discussing governance and boards with all sorts of people in a variety of areas, each corps has its own way of governing. I think this is why board/director discussions come up so often, and why the arguments can get heated. How often do we hear “The board should fire the director of Corps X” but they might not have the authority where as at Corps Y the board has the authority. 

 

I would think this would all be covered by a corps' Bylaws.

I know,at one time, it was next to impossible to get DCI's  Bylaws.

I tried a couple of times to get YEA's Bylaws when GH was there.

No luck.

Apparently,based on my experience, non-profit Bylaws aren't considered "public information" that has to be released.

Maybe DCI should require all corps' Bylaws be available,either on the corps' website,or posted, by corps, at DCI.org.

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by rpbobcat

[WarriorHal]

2 hours ago, Mad75 said:

Tesmusic, You're either being purposely misleading, disingenuous, or you simply do not have your facts in check.  As much as you continue to laud the praises and pull out the pom-poms for CK and DP and herald their "ruler-ship", It's been communicated that their roles have been changed/curtailed.  CK is NO LONGER in charge of the product on the field for the Scouts...And, this is hopefully the change that has been desperately required!  I realize this is probably a hard pill for you to swallow...But, the Scouts deserve success, not sub par leaders.

Long time huge fan of the Madison Scouts (since 1971) trying to keep up with what's going on. It sounds like the exec. dir. was in charge of everything -- the business side of running the corps plus he directly hired the design/instructional staff. Perhaps he also had approval/veto power over what the design staff came up with in terms of program direction. Now, he either voluntarily gave up control over the product on the field or was forced to do so by the board of directors. One way or the other, he hired James Elvord to fill the position of Artistic Dir./ Staff Coordinator, and Elvord was given complete authority to recruit and hire an all new design/instructional staff. So Elvord and his team are now responsible for the show we see on the field next season. How did I do?

[tesmusic]

1 minute ago, WarriorHal said:

Long time huge fan of the Madison Scouts (since 1971) trying to keep up with what's going on. It sounds like the exec. dir. was in charge of everything -- the business side of running the corps plus he directly hired the design/instructional staff. Perhaps he also had approval/veto power over what the design staff came up with in terms of program direction. Now, he either voluntarily gave up control over the product on the field or was forced to do so by the board of directors. One way or the other, he hired James Elvord to fill the position of Artistic Dir./ Staff Coordinator, and Elvord was given complete authority to recruit and hire an all new design/instructional staff. So Elvord and his team are now responsible for the show we see on the field next season. How did I do?

Exactly.

[dark-helmet]

2 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

I would think this would all be covered by a corps' Bylaws.

I know,at one time, it was next to impossible to get DCI's  Bylaws.

I tried a couple of times to get YEA's Bylaws when GH was there.

No luck.

Apparently,based on my experience, non-profit Bylaws aren't considered "public information" that has to be released.

Maybe DCI should require all corps' Bylaws be available,either on the corps' website,or posted, by corps, at DCI.org.

 

501c cooperations usually are regulated at the state level.   I know in my state we have to submit out bylaws to the AG whenever they change.  

 

Go Scouts!

Edited September 24, 2018 by dark-helmet
Added Go Scouts!

[MotoSurfBass]

7 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Sorry, I lost track.  Why, on this basis, are you not calling for the firing of all corps directors and BOD persons for Spirit, Academy, Colts, Troopers, Pacific Crest, Oregon Crusaders, Genesis, Jersey Surf, and the entire open class?  Their recent competitive records are no better, but for some reason, you only have a problem with that if it happens to the Madison Scouts.

Because 1975. Never mind that the Madison Scouts' highest placement in the lifetime of their current membership is only 6th, if they aren't contending for a title they aren't worthy to some.

[WarriorHal]

4 hours ago, MotoSurfBass said:

Because 1975. Never mind that the Madison Scouts' highest placement in the lifetime of their current membership is only 6th, if they aren't contending for a title they aren't worthy to some.

Scouts were a top-12 corps every year from 1973 through 2001 usually finishing in the top-6. They were among a handful of truly elite corps. In the past 17 years, they haven't been title contenders, but they still have made the top-12 a dozen times. So it shouldn't be difficult to understand that their long-time fans and alumni think of the Scouts as a perennial top-12 corps and are extremely disappointed when they fall far short of expectations.

[cixelsyd]

16 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

I hear you but.... when a ship runs aground, 

To put this in 1975 terms, Kingsmen would be a "ship run aground".  Your ship is still sailing.

Quote

the commanding officer takes the blame. Rightly. Wrongly. It doesn't matter. In most cases I think it's probably not the captain's fault at all. Nonetheless he/she takes the accountability. That's just the way it is. Similarly if a drum corps finishes well below expectations, is it entirely because of the executive director and / or director?  No. Probably not. But they need to take responsibility for it. That's where the buck stops, fair or not fair. 

But you just want a new captain.  You are not interested in letting the current captain take responsibility (i.e. try to fix it).  Blame ≠ responsibility.

[HockeyDad]

2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

To put this in 1975 terms, Kingsmen would be a "ship run aground".  Your ship is still sailing.

But you just want a new captain.  You are not interested in letting the current captain take responsibility (i.e. try to fix it).  Blame ≠ responsibility.

I'll play. I'm saying take responsibility ( i.e. step down). 

Anyway what happened to Anaheim Kingsmen in '75?  Anyone know?  And please don't hit me with, "this belongs in historical discussions".  So few people are here now anyway...